Trauma Bonds, Neuroscience and Healing From Abuse with Cody Isabel
Cody:
This program is brought to you by Pussy Magnets. Welcome.
Freya Graf:
Welcome, my lovely lumps. Or should I say lovely labs? I'm so thrilled to have you here in the Labia Lounge. We're gonna yawn about all things sexuality, womanhood, relationships, intimacy, holistic health, and everything in between. Your legs. Oh, can't help myself. Anyway, we're gonna have Vagelords of real chats with real people about real shit. So buckle up. You're about to receive the sex ed that you never had and have a bloody good laugh while you're at it.
Freya Graf:
Before we dive in, I'd like to respectfully acknowledge the traditional custodians of the land on which I'm recording this, the Wurundjeri people of the Kulin nation. It's an absolute privilege to be living and creating dope podcast content in Naarm, and I pay respect to their elders past, present and emerging. Now, if you're all ready, let's flap and do this. Oh, my god. Is there such thing as too many vagina jokes in the one intro? Whatever. It's my podcast. I'm leaving it in. Hey, gang.
Freya Graf:
Just before we jump into this episode, I wanted to offer you an opportunity to access my new mini course for free before I start charging for it in future. It's for people with vulvas and it's quick to complete. It's all about demystifying the female body and pleasure anatomy and getting some basic fundamentals to understand your body better. It's called Pussy Pleasure Secrets, Your Roadmap to Bedroom Bliss. You can grab it on the freebies page of my website or in the show notes. It's a great little free resource to kind of dip your toe in or act as a bit of a taster for my work. So if you've ever been curious about this sort of thing and you just don't know where to start or you want a really quick, easy, accessible, non threatening way to get the ball rolling and start working on this stuff, this is a great place to start. Hey, hey, labial lovers.
Freya Graf:
Welcome back. I've got an absolute doozy for you today and I'm actually not sure how I'm possibly gonna have time to fit in all of the questions that I have for this incredible guest, but I'm gonna try my best because it's such an important topic, and I know everyone will be able to relate to this and glean a lot of value from it. So we're chatting about toxic and abusive relationships, the different shapes and forms that this can take, how this can look, how to spot toxic or abusive dynamics, the effect of this stuff, on our brains, and how to recover from this particular brand of trauma and find a way back to a regulated nervous system or to a regulated nervous system if we've never had one, which is the case with childhood trauma. So I've got Cody with me today, a brain scientist and entrepreneur. He's generously here to share his expertise and highly specialized wealth of knowledge with us, and he's the CEO and founder of Mind Brain Body Lab, a mental health AI company that helps survivors of abusive relationships and childhood trauma restore balance to their nervous system post breakup without reliance on therapy or medication. His mission is to help 1,000,000,000 people to find happiness and purpose in their lives. Oh, this is just one of those moments where I just take stock and feel so grateful and fortunate that I get to chat with people like this doing such inspiring work, and that all of you lucky listeners get to benefit from these chats and have access to brilliant minds like Cody. So with that little bit of very earnest ass kissing, welcome, Cody.
Freya Graf:
Yeah. Pull up cushion. Get comfy. How are you feeling, mate?
Cody:
Good. I'm pumped. After having seen a couple of these live ones, I wish I was live, but, Australia is a bit of a trek for me.
Freya Graf:
I know. I know. One day, it would be so dope to get to do more live, in person interviews. Like, oh, it'd be really, really cool. So maybe that's a goal for me one day.
Cody:
Heck, yeah. That'd be a fun goal. Yeah. I'm pumped to be here.
Freya Graf:
See? Alright. Well, I guess, first off, just to give a bit of context and lay the foundation for this chat, I'd love to hear from you if you're comfortable sharing what made you so passionate about this stuff, you know, whether you've yourself experienced abusive relationships or childhood trauma, that's kinda geared you towards a career in this field or whether it's just been an interest of yours and yeah. I mean, let us know a bit of your background.
Cody:
For sure. So a lot of it started with just my interest in the brain and inflammation and, like, trauma in the brain, if you will. And not trauma in the mental and emotional sense, but more like physical brain trauma, like concussions. So I played college basketball and I got 4 or 3, 4 concussions myself. And then a lot of the research that was going on at my college was, exercise and neuroscience kind of collabing to kind of figure out blood markers for inflammation in the brain after physical trauma and stuff. And so I just got super interested in, like, trauma and how that affects the nervous system and the immune system, and what the how the nervous system reacts to, like, physical trauma. And then I started to realize that, oh, mental and emotional trauma does something very similar, almost identical to physical trauma. And so that was super interesting to me.
Cody:
And then I did. Childhood was awesome, but I did have some struggles in relationships, abusive relationships and things like that later in life. Like, I think it was, like, been almost 2 years now or a year and a half now where out of, like, my own struggle with an abusive relationship, and struggling with all of the everything that had to do with abuse and, complex PTSD and healing after that, dating again, breaking a trauma bond, like, all the all these buzzwords or whatever. Just experiencing that for myself while going through, and trying to run companies and manage people and all sorts of stuff. So kinda all hate it once. I was just like, holy crap. Needing to take a big dose of my own medicine, in relation to some of the stuff that I know and the research that I know. So that's where the initial passion came from.
Cody:
And then also with some of the work that I do on, like, social media and such, that was also kind of a big gap that I saw. There's a lot of people that, like, regurgitate the same thing over and over again on social media, which is, like, awesome. But where like, what's the science behind these things? Like, what's and that's my big I love really looking at, like, neuroscience and, like, primary research and being able to translate and help apply that into actionable tools for the real world based on, like, hard science. So
Freya Graf:
Amazing. Oh my god. I didn't realize it was so fresh. Like, a year and a half out from a toxic relationship. That is not that long. Like, you are killing it, dude. That's that's impressive because it really it is it's it's a whole thing, and it it disregulates you to such a point that I'm kind of amazed you've managed to build such a successful business and have so many cool things going on. Were you were you in an abusive relationship while doing work around because I know you've, you know, got the neuroscience background, but now you're really specializing in helping people recover from abusive relationships.
Freya Graf:
Were you literally doing that work while in the relationship, and did that kinda help you recognize it sooner, or was it just like a big blind spot for you? Like, I'm so curious.
Cody:
No. It's so interesting because I I think about this all the time. Because what we did was I started to when I first started to create content, my bat like, I love science. So we got a test. And so we did a whole month of testing. When I first was like, I wanna start to make content. And one week, we did mindset stuff. Then the next week, we did neuroscience stuff.
Cody:
Then the next week, we did toxic relationships and abusive relationships. And then the next week, we did, like, inspiration. And just tested and saw, like, what content hit. And the toxic relationships and abusive relationships and neuroscience psychology of those things blew up. And so there's a giant gap in there. And so then I started to go further down that rabbit hole in relation to, research, and I went and got, like, IFS train or internal family system psychotherapy. I got trained in that, and went deeper down, like, trauma recovery and, like, looking at those things. Mhmm.
Cody:
And I, for real, was like, wait a minute. Oh my god. What's going on here? Like, some of these things were getting kinda close to home, and there would be times where okay. So the wild thing is that the my the my ex business partner was my ex. Okay. So we were doing these things together. And there were moments where we would film a skit that was this is an abusive relationship, or this is an example of a toxic behavior, or this is narcissistic abuse, or this is x, y, or z, whatever. And we'd be doing a skip back and forth.
Cody:
And I would, for real, feel my, like, heart starting to beat, my nervous system spiking, and, like, I'm like or my, like, sympathetic nervous system kinda spiking a little bit. And I was just, like, the fight or flight type feeling. What the hell is going on here? And that that was a wild experience. And so that was definitely, like, eye opening, when I started to realize some of these types of things where it's like, it was in the zone of I don't know what I don't know. And it started to get into the zone of, I'm starting to know what I don't know, and realizing that. And then at the same time, just, trying to run a company together even outside of, like, someone emotionally stable or not. Like, it's just tough for a relationship in general. So and there's plenty I mean, my perspective is this is, like, my perspective about for my own healing journey is, like, taking agency over what I can control and, like, how I contributed to what was going on and, like, the patterns inside of me that lead me into relationships like this.
Cody:
And that's a lot of the patterns and parts that I help people kinda navigate when I work with them. Mhmm. But really taking a look at those. And I've done tons of therapy and all sorts of stuff on being able to communicate more effectively and be able to be set stronger boundaries and maintain my independence and, have habits, patterns, routines that fill me up and, like, things like that that really helped me a lot. So that that's been useful as well, in this in the journey, in this realization of kind of what I was going through. Yeah. So
Freya Graf:
Woah. Wow. That's fascinating. And, like, so fortunate that you did go down that rabbit hole and start kind of gathering information about it and therefore reflecting on your own relationship dynamics and kinda realizing, oh, holy shit. Like, I gotta get the fuck out of here. This is not healthy. And I suppose, yeah, a little bit in some sort of sick weird way serendipitous because it would make you so much better at your job and, you know, your ability to help people now would be massively increased having gone through it yourself, I suppose. Because I think it's very tricky to, like, properly, properly relate, and be able to support people in these situations if you don't have an embodied experience of that and if you don't kind of understand just how complex and nuanced and irrational it is.
Freya Graf:
Like, you know, when you're in those situations, your rational mind and I hear this all the time. Your rational mind can be like, I can now see that this is fucked, and I know I need to get out. And I know it's not this is this is not okay behavior. I'm not happy. Blah blah blah. But the actual, you know, the actual getting out bit can be, you know, can feel completely impossible for people. And and victims of toxic or abusive relationships get a lot of flack for, being weak or being stupid for staying or for going back. And that's, like, one of the most kind of, scary things about it is, like, they can really lose a lot of friends and family because they continue to be treated like this or go back to the relationship or stay in it or whatever.
Freya Graf:
And people kinda get exhausted with trying to give advice that just doesn't get taken and trying to help and support a person who seems to not really be ready to be helped or supported or or get out. And and it's really scary because especially, you know, with narcissists, they love to isolate you from all of your support networks and, and kind of create so much, like, internalized gaslighting and self doubt and self worth issues that, like, yeah, it can feel impossible to get out. And I'm wondering, like, in your experience since working with people in these situations, because I've noticed, like, it's rarely a one and done situation. Like, often it's like a bit of a perpetuating cycle of drama or abuse that plays out on repeat and that people find very difficult to get out of and heal from to the point where, like, you know, they might have one relationship like relationship like this, but then they fall back into the same trap again in the next relationship. And, like, what do you think that is? Like, what's creating that, vulnerability to continue falling for the same thing?
Cody:
Yeah. I mean, there's a couple of things. And this is where I really love blending neuroscience into, into the full tier. And neuroscience and internal family systems. Because to speak to what you're talking about a second ago, people go back. And, like, there's trauma bonds and, like, we understand like, trauma bonds more than neuroscience, but the there are IFS conceptualizes people not as in, like, just yourself, more as multiple parts. Your psyche has multiple parts. Just like, if you think of like human body systems, okay? There are atoms, atoms make up cells, cells make up organs, A bunch of organs together create organ systems, like your cardiovascular system, your respiratory system.
Cody:
Right? Tons of organ systems together create you. Right? Individual nerve cells bundle together to create neural networks, neural networks create regions, regions create your brain. Right? And, like, there are parts and they build up to the whole. And if you look literally everywhere, all over the place, that's exactly what hap like, hydrogen atoms come together with water or, oxygen atoms come together to create h two o. Lots of h two o that creates water, lots of water create creates a lake, lots of and it builds up. And so your psyche is just the same. And so you're made of many parts. And that's a big thing in relation to IFS.
Cody:
So there is a part of you, a part of you that wants to leave and knows you should leave and is very rational. But there's another part of you that's getting its emotional needs met and is soothed by being in the relationship, and feel safe in the chaos. And so Yeah. That's the piece a lot of the times people come really rationally with, I wanna do this, I wanna do this. And a lot of people come to therapy or coaching, whatever, with with they come as the part of them that wants the therapy. But there's almost always a part that says, well, I don't I don't think I need this. I don't I don't wanna do this. We're fine or whatever.
Cody:
And that's the same type of dynamic that, like, these are it's called a polarization, where one part wants this and another part wants this, and almost everybody has felt this in some way sometime in their life. Or one part of them wants to kind of, do x, y, and z. I'm gonna go travel and be free and do all this kind of stuff. And then another part's like, well, I wanna create a family and stability and routine. And it's like Mhmm. We have all these polarizations. Like, one part is super focused on the destination. Another part is like, well, I'm gonna enjoy the journey.
Cody:
Right? And we stay stuck in these polarizations. And we never identify them because there's usually one that's dominant. Like, for me, I'm destination focused. Like, I'm results focused. Let's get it done. Let's get this right? And the journey part kinda takes a backseat. Same thing that happens in these abusive dynamics because the part that is, like, I wanna be like, wants to be in the relationship oftentimes wins out over, the part that is like, we need to rationally get out. So that's for sure a piece of it.
Cody:
And that often stems from some type of trauma, especially childhood trauma, whether it's big t or little t, but attachment ruptures, especially.
Freya Graf:
Yeah.
Cody:
Where you are your mom and your dad left when you were young or they died or, something like that happened, whereas there was a big attachment rupture. And attachment ruptures are the specific type of trauma that I I like I study the most, because it's the most traumatic of all types of trauma, if you think about it, is attachment trauma, which means there's a severing of attention, love, and affection, like of like the bonding that you have with the mom or a dad, or initial caregiver. And so that type that leaves scars, that leaves wounds that come IFS calls them exiles, like, these parts of you that get exiled. Like, it's like shame, abandonment, rejection, these huge big emotions that we wanna shove down and exile away. And so we just have to take this part and, like, you hold on to that big emotion. I'm gonna shove you down and exile you away and not deal with you. However, those exiled emotions want another at bat. They want another chance to try and heal and recover and do it right this time.
Cody:
And so they drag you back into subconsciously pull you into these abusive patterns and situations so they can get another at bat. If I treat this one differently, maybe they won't leave me like my dad, or they won't lead me like my mom, like Mhmm. Whatever the dynamic was. And so they wanna get another at bat. And so they pull you back into these relationships. And that's gotta be careful. I say this might might gripe with solving surface level problems. Like, a lot of the times, traditional thought therapy or these cognitive therapies are great, but they don't solve the root cause, which is the that, like, stuck little child that's inside of you.
Cody:
That little part of you that's trying to get, that's trying to heal, but it's doing it in the wrong way. Trying to put you back in a situation because that's the only way it lever learned how to heal, is doing it right in that situation. But it doesn't have to be that way. If you can get to that part and do some of that parts work and that deeper work, you can solve that root cause and and not be dragged into these unhealthy dynamics or pulled like a current towards these unhealthy, relationships. That's kind of the IFS side. We can go to the neuroscience of travel bonds in a second if you'd like, but I'll stop by and block.
Freya Graf:
Yeah. Yeah. Oh my god. There's so much in there. I'm just like, oh, wow. It's, yeah. It kinda reminds me a little bit of, shadow work. I suppose those emotions like shame and loneliness and the things that we reject or we exile, you know, wind up having quite a bit of power.
Freya Graf:
And I love how you described it as having a current that's just pulling us back in. And I kind of almost feel like, on one hand, you know, if you've had that sort of attachment wound or childhood trauma earlier in life, it's like almost it almost feels it's or well yeah. I guess maybe it's a pretty loaded word, but it almost feels like it's some sort of addictive pattern where you're constantly, like, going back to this particular situation that's, on one hand, gonna provide an opportunity to maybe get this, like, hole inside you filled with the love that was, you know, taken away that you didn't get. But on the other hand, usually, what wins out is it's also an opportunity to have all of your biggest fears and insecurities about being unlovable or, you know, being abandoned fulfilled because you're finding these situations that are gonna just continue confirming that or, you know, it's almost a bit of, like, negativity bias where we're we've got this, like, sick existential kink for, like, things that hurt us because we've almost become addicted to the drama cycle of that and, those feelings that we don't wanna feel and that are being neglected or shoved down, those shadow sides are just desperately trying to get their time in the sun again. And it's just oh my god. It does my head in because it's so I feel like it's so tricky to get out of these cycles even like, I guess the first step is being aware of it and noticing these parts and noticing these patterns, and I feel like that's where I'm at. Like, I've I I can really, like, I'm very self aware. I can really reflect on, like, okay.
Freya Graf:
These are the wounds and this is the trauma and these are the patterns and this is how this is all kind of resulting in this. But to actually unhook and, like, get myself out of that is a whole another story. So would love to, yeah, like, learn more about internal family systems and, like, the strategies. But, yeah, let's chat about the neuroscience side of this because it's really fascinating stuff, and I think, like, a lot of it is happening without our awareness. And if we just kinda, like, shine a light on it and explain, like because, you know, it so much of, early earlier on in life, if you if you've got certain trauma, it makes you more vulnerable to further trauma of a similar nature because it's, I mean, it's given you brain damage, basically. Like, it's really fucked with you neurologically. So let's maybe chat about that side of things.
Cody:
Yeah. For sure. Yeah. I'm happy to go back to the, like, intellectualizing of things that have happened to you as well in relation to IFS perspective. So, but in relation to the neuroscience, you are absolutely correct to say addicted, because it is an addiction cycle that people get stuck in and they just do not realize it.
Freya Graf:
Hey, baby babes. Sorry to interrupt. I just had to pop my head into the lounge here and mention another virtual lounge that I'd love you to get around. It's the Labia Lounge Facebook group that I've created for listeners of the potty to mingle in. There you'll find extra bits and bobs like freebies, behind the scenes, or discounts for offerings from guests who have been interviewed on the podcast. They'll also be, hopefully, inspiring, thought provoking conversations and support from a community of labial legends like yourself. My vision for this is that it becomes a really supportive, educational, and hilarious resource for you to have more access to me and a safe space to ask questions you can't ask anywhere else. So head over to links in the show notes or look up the Labia Lounge group in Facebook,
Cody:
and I'll see you in there.
Freya Graf:
And now back to the episode.
Cody:
But when you're thinking about trauma bonding and what that really means when you break it down inside the brain, you're thinking you're some of the most powerful chemicals that we have. So in the when you're feeling the let's let's start on the abuse side. So when you're in these abusive patterns, oftentimes what's happening is, there's high stress, high stress abuse, which is cortisol epinephrine, like, your stress chemicals and neurohormones and things like that, are getting released. You're in fight or flight mode. You're high stress. It's like, holy crap. This really sucks really bad. And so your brain then, marks that with dopamine as well.
Cody:
People are like, oh, what what do you mean dopamine? Dopamine is you want to remember to not go near that again or stay away from that type of thing. So there's some dopamine that's released. It's almost like that pleasurable feeling you get, in a way. But it's really people forget that dopamine is more about drive movement towards, than it is just straight pleasure necessarily. So there's some dopamine that's laid down in relation to stress because it's like, okay, I need to remember that, a tiger is over across the pond to get the berries, but if I go through the forest, there's no tiger. So I need to remember that. And so it drives you towards away from try to move you away from the pain. On the other side, though, is if you look at, like, the the common abuse cycle or whatever that happens is there's, like, love bombing.
Cody:
So what starts to happen is, you have this big, knockout, drag out, like, trauma response or abuse response, cortisol, epinephrine, all stuff. And then things you you kiss, you make up, you have the makeup sex, you like, the love bombing where they're taking you on big trips, they give you big gifts, all the stuff. Lots of, guess what, oxytocin, serotonin, like, dosing more dopamine, endodimides, endorphins, all of these, like, super, super, really good feeling type things. So really high highs, really low lows. Thing that people don't talk about a lot is that, oxytocin erases negative memories. Right? It's why parent or moms wanna have kids multiple times. It's traumatic to have a child, but there's so much oxytocin released when you have a kid, that it helps you blunt the pain and forget. And so when people are like when people go back, they and people external to them get frustrated, like, how could you go back? They're so mean and so abusive.
Cody:
The abused does not remember that. They are only remembering and thinking about the high highs a lot of the times. And that's why I take 7, 8 times a lot of times for them to truly get away. Or the even scarier thing is a more intense level of abuse that is scarier. K? And so what what I have found a lot of the times is is and well, before I get there, just finish this out. Like, so you have the super high high, which you lay down some dopamine because you want pleasure. So you lay down some more dopamine. And the dopamine on either side of the pleasure and the pain is a classic addiction cycle, like, literally.
Cody:
So if you look at the brains of someone who has complex PTSD after abusive after an abusive relationship, domestic violence, things like that, and then you look at someone who's addicted to cocaine, very similar brains, very similar, like activation patterns, very similar behaviors, withdrawal, all these types of things that start to happen when you are going through this cycle. And so breaking a trauma bond is truly breaking an addiction cycle. It's the same thing. And there is withdrawal and there is anxiety. And there is all these worse, things get worse before they get better type of thing, just like with most addictions. And the scary part, just like with most drugs of abuse, if you will, or things that you get addicted to, the negative has to get a lot worse for it to, like, really, really hit home a lot of the times. Like, most people are scared of the unknown more than they're scared of the familiar hell type of thing. And I find that a lot in abusive relationships.
Cody:
It's like, well, if I leave, the fear of the unknown is scarier than being I I can predict the scary behavior of this person now. I'm familiar and used to that. Yeah. And so a lot of times it takes an extraordinary it jump in, like, maybe it's a verbal abuse and it becomes physical for the first time. Or maybe it is been physical, but now it's getting more dangerous, like with, like, weapons and different things like that. And it takes that or or kids become involved, God forbid. And it takes that next intense level, and that is really scary in domestic violence situations as well because that escalation happens so quickly and is generally extraordinarily dangerous. And so that mean that's there's tons of sad stories in this space, but that extraordinary increase, oftentimes is what has allowed people to kinda get out or realize and come to the realization like, oh my god.
Cody:
I see what everyone's been saying and it clicks finally. Because now the fear of the unknown is less scary than what they're currently what's currently happening to them, if that makes sense.
Freya Graf:
Yeah. Yeah. And I guess it's a really it's similar in a lot of ways to an addictive pattern. That's something that just popped out in my mind is, like, you know, as someone who has supported people in these situations and and could see it a mile off, like, it's easy to see from the outside when you're not in it and you're not the one trauma bonded, and and the really frustrating thing is, like, you can see what needs to be done. You know they need to get out. You can kind of see what's going on. But for the life of you, there's nothing you can fucking do generally until it has literally gotten so bad that they've hit rock bottom and they can come to that realisation themselves. And it's kind of similar with, like, substance abuse addictions.
Freya Graf:
Like, they really have to hit rock bottom on their own before like, no intervention will really work until they've kind of hit the lowest of lows or there's something quite extreme or shocking to jolt them, you know, out of out of that cycle enough, hopefully, to kind of put some steps in place. And, yeah, it's kinda like that with abusive relationships, and it's just absolutely devastating and infuriating and frustrating and so difficult to see someone in that dynamic suffering, and maybe they're not even fully aware yet. There, you know, might be at different stages of the kind of, like, awakening to the reality and and and even once they've kind of awakened to that, like, preparing to leave and putting the things in place that need to happen. And it's it's such a hard thing being someone on the outside trying to figure out how to support them best, and And I'd love to hear your kind of take on this because so like, I've been in this situation a lot of times. I've I've spoken to a lot of people in this situation where they wanna help and they wanna get this person out or they wanna help this person see the light or see the reality of what's going on. But in in doing so, in trying to, you know, open their eyes or push them towards action, you're kinda pushing them further away and that's kind of playing into the narrative, especially if, like, you know, it's if they're with a narcissist or someone who's quite manipulative. That's just playing into their narrative, that they can use against you and and further isolate that person from their support network. And so it's like sometimes doing none of the things that you intuitively wanna do, like grab them and shake them and scream and be like, get the fuck out of here.
Freya Graf:
This is not okay. Like, none of that will actually be very productive or effective. You just kinda need to be there and and wait until they figure out. I mean, well, I'm not even sure. I'm I'm often like, fuck. Could I be doing something better? Like, what would be the best way to tackle this? So So I'm really curious to hear if you've got some strategies, for those who have a family member or a friend that are in an abusive relationship, whether that's, you know, physically abusive or all the other different forms of domestic violence, which don't have to be physical. How can we best support these people? And is it is it, you know, counterproductive to try to show them what's going on? Like, what do we do?
Cody:
Yeah. The hard part is, well, 1st and foremost, what I'll say is safety is number 1. Like, if they you feel like they are not safe, absolutely, let the correct people know, which is depending where you're at. In the United States, there's tons of hotlines that you can call to message. Violence hotlines, like 911. Like, there's so many different resources and things for just straight up safety, and just helping them understand and have those at the ready if need be. Just that's in the extreme case, kinda like the just keep this in mind. Outside of that, being able to, there's a couple of things you do.
Cody:
1st and foremost, shame doesn't ever generally work. And the hard part is you might be too close to the situation to like, it can't be a profit in your own town. Right? And so it's like, being able to try to find third party ways. Like, not to, like, self promote or whatever, but I've had so many people that DM me and say, I have my, brother or sister has been sending me your videos for, like, 3 weeks now, or sorry, 6 or 3 months now or 6 weeks or whatever. And I'm starting to think that I'm in an abusive relationship, and I what do I do now? And they kind of have that realization. Because it's really hard. People don't believe anything you tell them. They believe 50% of what someone else tells them, and they believe a 100% of what they tell themselves.
Cody:
And so to get to that 50%, where it's like they believe what someone else is telling them, sometimes it's that insinuation. It's you yourself being there in complete support and love, and and it's really kinda pet little sneaky, like, hey. Check out this video. Or, oh my god. I just read this really interesting book about psychology. I think you'd be interested in this. And it's that, like, subtle, like, putting stuff out there type of things and information out there that can that I can say it's effective because so many people reach out to me saying that's how they kind of realize it, came to that realization a little bit. That's one.
Cody:
And then the last piece is the shame part. Like, the worst thing that you can do is shame someone and shake them and yell at them and things like that. Because you gotta remember that, like, imagine that there's a little child, like, literally 3, 4, 5, 6 year old version of them that wants to stay in the relationship. And they are just sitting there waiting for you to get mad and, like, say you shouldn't do that. And it seems counterintuitive. But really sitting there and try to listen, understand, validate, like, show them some attention, care, and affection and be like, oh, okay. Let's say that let's say that you do stay. Okay? But and and that's okay.
Cody:
If you do stay, it's okay. I understand. No worries at all. And don't shame them for that, because it's just gonna be counterintuitive. And then when they need help and they don't feel safe, they're gonna feel like they have nobody.
Freya Graf:
Yeah. To
Cody:
do some of the switching of their beliefs and and working with that part of them, I would recommend getting them to see if you can get them in front of someone that can kind of help them understand and start to flip that belief in their own mind. If they get that 50% where they're starting to question, someone who's really good, like an IFS or SE, or somebody who's really good at some of this stuff can really help them start to see themselves for who they are and show some compassion towards themselves and really love up that part that wants to go back or that wants to stay in the relationship and help that part feel safe. Because the they're that part is attached to an abuser right now, but that part can learn to be attached to that that person internally. And that's the problem. Right now, they're going external for safety.
Freya Graf:
Yeah.
Cody:
But they can develop safety internally and attach with themselves as opposed to having to attach to someone else for safety and love, attention, validation, and things like that. That the last piece of what I just said is better for a trained professional. Would not recommend trying to do that
Freya Graf:
with friends. Yeah.
Cody:
Yeah. But everything before that, you could do.
Freya Graf:
Yeah. Yeah. I love that. And that's kind of been my over the last few years, that's kind of been my strategy is just sending, like, links to blog posts or podcasts or and, you know, creating these resources for people because it it often does need to come from somebody other than you because you're too close to it. And if it's if it comes from a stranger on the Internet, especially, like, one with a professional expertise that's kind of got a bit of credibility, it's gonna hold more weight and it's gonna be a gentler way of kind of opening their eyes to certain, you know, concepts or potential realities that, you know, me going in like a real blunt object is not gonna be able to achieve because, like, I I really struggle with not, like, I'm almost, like, I'm just so, sometimes I suspect I'm on the spectrum because I'm, like, autistic honest sometimes, and it's, like, so not the best way to go in these situations. I'm I'm just not subtle. I really struggle to be subtle. When I'm seeing something, I just wanna call it out.
Freya Graf:
So I've had to really work on that for myself and be like, cool. That's not gonna work, and I'm also not gonna be a safe space for this person when they do come to the realization that they need some support. So, yeah, just kind of really reeling it back, has been like a challenge for me, but something that I'm I'm pretty aware of these days. Because, yeah, you wanna be you wanna be their first port of call and you wanna be a safe space. You don't want them to feel like you're, you know, judging them or shaming them because you think they're an idiot for staying, which is what they're kind of getting a lot from a lot of angles. Generally, people don't have well, society doesn't have heaps of sympathy for, like, the one that stays, you know, because it's like, oh, well, they're kind of bringing it on themselves, and I think that that's just such a, yeah, an an untrauma informed way of looking at it. So I love I love what you said about just, like, really being subtle and kind of
Cody:
The other thing too is one of the best things you could do is focus on yourself and your own healing and be a positive example and influence for, like, becoming the type of person you want them to become. Because in you doing that and them like, brains learn through observation and reflection more than anything. It's simply children. That's how we learn best. And so focusing in and becoming a positive influence and a shining light for the type of healing in life that you want them to experience is honestly one of the best ways that hurt people hurt people, but heal people heal people. And so and you don't even have to do anything in relation to heal them or fix them. Because a lot of times people want them to change their behavior because they're trying to get an emotional me met in themselves. I want them to heal because subconsciously, I know I need to do something similar or there's an area of my life that I don't wanna focus on, so I'm gonna focus on them externally as opposed to turning internal.
Cody:
Doing a u-turn is what they call it in IFS and really examining your own parts that are at play. And working with those parts in you and then showing up differently for that your friend
Freya Graf:
Yeah.
Cody:
And showing up differently for your friend in a healed way is, again, one of the best ways. It's just infectious. Like, it's infectious. Mhmm.
Freya Graf:
Mhmm. Yeah. That's beautiful. It's yes. I love that. And definitely leading by example, you know, can never go wrong, like, when you're when you're doing the work for yourself. And, yeah, I I just always remind myself, like, alright. Like, how can I be the safest possible space for this person? And that's probably not by telling them the truth at all.
Freya Graf:
It's by trying to sneak some veggies into their dinner like you do with children and and just, like, send certain resources their way or talk about a book that I'm reading that's really interesting or, you know, using an example from my life or what I'm realizing about a certain relationship I've had or whatever. Because, yeah, that's that's like a much more roundabout and subtle way of slowly slowly kind of introducing some ideas and and info for them. So, yeah, I love that. And definitely your your all your social media content's so great for that. Like, it's bite sized. It's really, like, relatable kind of practical little, tidbits. So people should definitely go and check that out. And, I know multiple friends of mine have kind of come to the realization that they're in an abusive relationship with a narcissist through me sending them little reels and podcasts, some of your stuff, some of other people's stuff.
Freya Graf:
It definitely seems to be a more palatable way to kind of introduce that information, and they're a lot more, like, receptive to it that way. So, yeah, I've I've learned that the hard way in in the past, kinda going in a bit too hot. But I'd love to do the segment get pregnant and die before we jump back into some more questions. Do you have a story about your sex, Ed, that you could share with us?
Cody:
Don't have sex because you will get pregnant and the doctor's office. Don't have sex in the missionary position. Don't have don't have sex standing up. Just don't do it. Promise? Sure. Yeah. I was, sex ed for me was wild. I'm excited.
Cody:
I grew up Catholic. So I grew up I'm I'm sure you hear this.
Freya Graf:
Bloody. But Oh, okay. I know.
Cody:
But, my my sex education was just wild. Like, it was the hardest part, it was mostly about what not to do and very shame, guilt
Freya Graf:
Yeah.
Cody:
Fear ridden type of stuff. Like, and so the biggest thing for me was in relation to, like, anything sexual, whether it was, like, literally sex, masturbation, porn, any of that kind of stuff, there was just a lot of shame, guilt, and fear that was laced into it. And so one of the, like, craziest, wildest things that I look back on now, I'm just like, how like, I've worked on this in therapy. I'm just like, how how was this something that happened to me and was, like, good in the eyes of, like, certain organizations or whatever? But, I just remember that I used to like, if I saw a boob in a freaking TV show or something, I would just stick I couldn't fall asleep until the next day so I could go to confession and get the mortal sin off my soul so that I didn't because if you die with a mortal sin on your soul, you go to hell. Like, I literally just I would think that over and over again. So there's little me that was just sitting there, like, so concerned about anything in relation to sexuality that, like, it was just wild. So it was really, like, less sex education story and more like a sec or I guess it kind of is, but I just I wish more of it was, actually sex education, not just sex, fear, shaming, and guilting. It was more like actually educating educating me on what's going on and the science behind things.
Cody:
So that would be that's probably my story.
Freya Graf:
That is so horrific. And, like, I wish I hadn't heard so many stories like this, but it's especially in the States, it's pretty intense. Like, I didn't have a religious upbringing, and there's a lot less of that there. It exists, but there's less of that in Australia. I mean, sex ed is absolutely dismal, and there's definitely a lot of, like, Catholic schools and Christian schools and stuff that that, you know, do the abstinence stuff. And, but that, I just feel like from from an outsider perspective, someone who hasn't been brought up religiously, it just seems like viciously unethical and traumatic to put the what the fuck? Like,
Cody:
and and what age would you
Freya Graf:
yeah. Like, literally, like, you couldn't sleep because you thought you were going to hell because you'd accidentally seen a boob on TV or and that it was a sin to like, how how did your relationship with your body and your penis and, like, sexual energy wind up at like, when you started going through puberty and, like, like, at what age did you realize, like, you know, you weren't going to hell? But how did you get out of this?
Cody:
Honestly, I mean, it took a while. I was pretty freaking indoctrinated for a for a long time. Like, it feels like like people that escaped cults almost, which Yeah. Is kind of, like, bad to say or whatever in in a way because I think there are some positive things that come from, like, religious upbringing and different things like that. I don't think it's all bad. Like, there's no absolutes. But, I mean, it took a while. I mean, it's honestly still something I work on in therapy today even.
Cody:
Yeah. These are things and conversations that I have with my therapist, even still today as I'm trying to process and work through some of these types of things. So I don't even think that I have fully come to, like, a healthy perspective around sex, like, sexuality and things like that. I'm not where I want to be necessarily, where it's guilt free, shame free. I still have those reactions about things, like Yeah. I'm doing something wrong, or I'm doing something bad, or I shouldn't be doing this, like, shoulding and shame and things like that. But I got, like, in college, around college's time where I was really just more free to do what I wanted and, like, didn't have to I didn't have to go to church if I didn't want to. I didn't have to do these things.
Cody:
Like, like, I was just more free to explore and test and, like, do things. I started to at least be able to follow my curiosity and feel okay with that and just be like, okay. But it still felt it still felt like wrong in some way or shameful in some way. Yeah. And that was still that was still hard to beat. And it's interesting now too because there's maybe it's not religion, but there's a lot of, like, there's a lot of people that, especially for men, like, there's, like, don't watch porn. Do do watch porn. Don't masturbate.
Cody:
Do masturbate. Like and it's just, like, still just another version of
Cody:
Yeah.
Cody:
A bearded dude in the clouds telling you what you should and shouldn't do. And so it it's Mhmm. Defining that for myself, I'm honestly still on the journey of figuring some of that stuff out, specifically for myself and working through some of, like, the shame and the guilt and some of that stuff,
Freya Graf:
Totally.
Cody:
In relation to those things. So
Freya Graf:
Yeah. Wow. Thank you for sharing. It's big stuff, and this is this is exactly the kind of stuff that I work with clients on on the reg, because it's so it is. It's it's it's a real indoctrination, and it it gets in there when you're pretty young and vulnerable and when your sexual identity is forming and it's so damaging. It's just like layer upon layer upon layer of, like, a lot of little t trauma, you know, as that's still coming at us with with the sort of shame and stigma around sexuality. So, I mean, that's why I'm passionate about what I do, and it's pretty much an ongoing journey because you're trying to remove all of the shame and stigma and fear mongering that went on, you know, in in the religious upbringing. And then also there's just, like, daily reminders and layers, that your sexuality is not okay, basically, like, still in our society.
Freya Graf:
So it's a lot. It's a lot. But glad to hear that you're actively, like, delving into that sort of stuff in therapy because it's very worth it. And I imagine that the way the way that, all of that sort of, like, fear and shaming around sex, like, behaves in our brains and our nervous systems is is quite similar to other forms of of trauma. So it's kind of all related to what we're talking about as well. Like, I feel like, yeah, religion can obviously, there can be some positives, but it can also feel like an abusive relationship and kinda have a hold on us that is kinda reminiscent of of that. So, yeah. Oh, so interesting.
Freya Graf:
Okay. There's so many I'm just, like, conscious of time, and I'm like,
Cody:
oh my god.
Freya Graf:
There's so many different things I wanna talk about. I love that you touched on attachment theory and memory and how, you know, all of this is very relevant. I'm wondering if there's, also any, like, kind of telltale signs or, I don't know. I I was about to say ticks, but, you know, just like things, like behavioral things maybe, signs, day to day signs that, like, we have a bit of a traumatized brain and that we are operating from a dysregulated space. Like, are there things that we might not have noticed that we just think are normal? Because that's our baseline, but it's actually a result of, you know, chronic stress, lots of, you know, layers of trauma. Yeah. Just just go nuts. Just go nuts.
Freya Graf:
Whatever feels relevant to talk about. Excuse this quick interruption. I'm shamelessly seeking reviews and 5 star ratings for the potty because as I'm sure you've noticed by now, it's pretty fab. And the more people who get to hear it, the more people I can help with it. Reviews and ratings actually do make a big difference to this little independent podcaster, and it's really easy to just quickly show your support by taking that simple act of either leaving 5 stars for the show on Spotify or even better, writing your written review and leaving 5 stars over on Apple Podcasts. Or if you're a real overachiever, you can do them both. That would be mad. If you're writing a review though, just be sure to use g rated words because despite the fact that this is a podcast about sexuality, words like sex can be censored and your review won't make it through the gates.
Freya Graf:
Lame. Anyway, I would personally recommend doing that right now while you remember just to get on top of it and let me know you're with me on this journey. Thanks, gang. Enjoy the rest of the epi.
Cody:
Sure. Yeah. I mean, there's all sorts of stuff, like, that you can kinda think about because IFS kind of thinks about trauma is in a less like, 90 90% of people have some type of trauma. Right? And so there are more innocuous things than you would imagine in relation to, like, what could potentially be stemming from some type of trauma. And I very much believe that most things stem from some type of bigger little t trauma in general. So even things as simple as, like, people pleasing can be as super, like, innocuous. Like, oh, yeah. Just kinda people please, but that can stem from some type of trauma bonding, or trauma that occurred to you.
Cody:
Empaths is another one, a really common one that I see. Hypervigilance, in relation to, like that one's a little bit more obvious, like, when you're when you, like, jump or startle super easily. A lot of similar, or a lot of things like that, can be forms of telltale signs that you might be struggling with some type of underlying trauma or something like that. If you're thinking about your nervous system, there's tons of of things that you can start to I'm very passionate about this piece because you can you can measure your nervous system more than you think. But, there's something called your HRV that you can look at. And if you have a consistently if you've done all the health things you possibly can and you still have your heart rate variability, which is that's super low and you just can't seem to figure out how to do that, it's a measurement of stress, underlying stress or whatever, is what your HRV is. Heart rate variability is what it stands for. Most, like, a WHOOP device, an Apple Watch, or rings, like, Garmin watch.
Cody:
So many people measure it now, because it's such a great indicator of stress, and it's what I use with my clients to help objectively measure mental and emotional health. That's another really innocuous sign that, okay, there might be some deeper stuff that I'm struggling with in relation to store trauma, and just underlying stress, constant underlying stress. If you're constantly getting burned out, like, there's a binge burnout cycle, that people kinda go in and get stuck in. That's another sign of of some some things that might be you might be stuck in. If you're constantly kinda going from this, like, dissociated, numb, depressed, hopeless, like, shutdown state to this rage, panic, fear, anxiety, irritation type of state or whatever, and you're just fluctuating between those two states, that's a pretty large sign of nervous system dysregulation, especially, because you're just constantly in a free state or a fight or flight state. You don't ever truly get back down to, like, your parasympathetic, like, rest and digest, calm, cool, collected state. Those are some really big indicators in relation to kinda what's going on. Any types of addictions.
Cody:
And I'm even talking like like, self harm, like, things like that can be a form of, addiction, dissociation, anger, rage, binge shopping, like, things like that, alcohol. These are, like, firefighters that you're causing you to state change, to react and distract you away from some underlying thing. What is the underlying thing? That's, like, the the the question of the year. Having an inner critic, having an achiever, having an intellectualizer where you have to rationalize everything and make sense of everything and figure it out. Those can be signs of something that's going on. Not every single thing of these is tied to trauma, obviously. But there's there's just a lot of individual signs, and every nervous system has billions and billions and trillions, 100, a 1000 trillion synapses in every single brain. Like, that is insanely large.
Cody:
Like, it would take 360,000,000 years 330 or sorry. 36,000,000 years to count to that number. And that complexity is in each and every brain and nervous system. And that's just the nerve cells or the synapses. So, it's wild. And so there's a lot of diversity in things that can happen, but it's really about the system, and starting to notice the system of things, not just one thing. Like, if you start if you get rejected, and you start to rage and get pissed off, and then the next morning you wake up and there's a critic that's beating the shit out of the part of you that rage. Like, I can't believe you yelled.
Cody:
You look you embarrassed us. You look terrible. You, Right? Now you're you yourself are putting another part of you in the shame cycle, and that shame cycle just disregulates its part, which causes it to react, which like, it's a cycle of things. It's not just these things in, like, their own individual little spots. They all connect with one another in a system. And that's the interesting and a really good awareness hack. These you then can triangulate to okay. So I got pissed off.
Cody:
I got really great. Mad. Or sorry. I beat the shit out of myself. Why did I do that? Oh, because I got mad. Okay. Why? What happened here? What was going on here? Tell me more. If you didn't get mad, mister and miss part of me, if you didn't get mad, what are you afraid would happen? Oh, well, then shame and rejection would escape, and you would have a shame attack, and it would take you over, and you would die.
Cody:
And, like, oh, okay. Got it. And how old do you think I am? Well, you're 4 or 5. Woah. Wait a minute. What if I told you I was, like, 28 now? Wait. You're 28? I've been doing this job for that long? Yeah. And what if I told you that I have a therapist now, and I, like, actually have a great support system, and I have new tools and resources, and you can actually take a break, mister anger and rage.
Cody:
Like, you can start to talk to that part of you, and it's like, woah. I had no idea. Like and then it's like and I can actually handle that shame and rage now, and I can go rescue it. Would that help you? Yeah. That would help me a lot. Great. Let's do that. And so starting to figure out some of those types of things and the patterns, and then being able to get to the root cause as opposed to going to anger management.
Cody:
What's that gonna do? Except give you tools to cope. I come so many people come to me and they rationalize and intellectualize every single freaking pattern. They know that, yeah, this was legacy trauma for my mom, and this was the thing for my dad, and then this pattern was here. And I'm like, very interesting that you can explain and rationalize all these things. You've had five different therapists in the last 3 months, but none of them helped you. Tell me more about that. Like, what's going on here? Like, do you think if you stop rationalizing and started, like like, actually being here with your parts, something would change? And that that's a big difference, as opposed to coming with an agenda and just trying to heal. So those are a lot of the different triggers or indicators, and then how to triangulate on what's actually going on in relation to those indicators.
Freya Graf:
Yeah. And I guess to because because the, intellectualizing and overanalyzing is a really common thing. I fall into that trap. I have a lot of clients that do that,
Cody:
and
Freya Graf:
it's it's good to be self aware. But what, like, what would you suggest instead? Like you said, being with those parts. So, you know, like, acknowledging them, feeling compassion for them, allowing them to be there. Like, what are some practical ways we can actually just diffuse how much power they have over us and that we're acting out from this place of a 4 or 5 year old who's, like, traumatized and lonely and, and actually kind of, reintegrate these parts and nurture them so that so that we're feeling a little bit more whole? Like, is that is that the kind of strategy that's mostly involved in internal family systems? I haven't I haven't really done much of that stuff.
Cody:
Yeah. Yeah. That's you're dead on. Especially this rationalizer, intellectualizer part, the first step is awareness, like you're saying, and then naming it. That helped me a ton, because I have an extraordinarily strong intellectualizer, rationalizer, that keeps me safe a ton. Like, I have an extraordinarily strong one, which helps me a lot, and is amazing. And there there there are no bad parts. This intellectualizer is not bad.
Cody:
Like, even suicide and suicide ideation is not bad, and that is a part of you that feels that way. And I work with people on that all the time. And I'm the 1st person that ever comes to them and says, oh, it makes sense that you as a 3 or 4 year old would feel that way. Because as a 3 or 4 year old, you do not realize and this is I'm answering your question with an example because this is what you do with these parts. I'm just giving a very extreme example. But even a part as extreme as suicide, if you go to that part and you ask it, like, and you just listen to it, like, what's your intention for me? What do you hope for me? And it's like, well, I wanna keep you safe. I wanna protect you. I wanna make sure that you're okay, and remembering that it is 3 or 4 years old.
Cody:
So even something as intense in suicide, like, a 3 or 4 year old doesn't have the brain development yet to understand that suicide means nonexistence. It means that you will it does not understand that you will be gone. And so to a 3 or 4 year old, that makes complete sense as a solution to pain. Okay? And so when you realize that this part of you that is this, like, ugly, gross thing that you want to go in that you hate, like anxiety is another one that people I just want it to go away. I hate it. I don't wanna be around it. Well, if you were talking to a child, your friend's child, and you all of a sudden started saying, I hate you. Like, you suck so bad.
Cody:
Just go away. Like, leave me alone. That kid would start to cry and throw a giant big tantrum. And that's exactly what anxiety is doing when it grabs your shoulders and squeezes the shit out of you and then, like, gives you a migraine. It's the same thing. It's throwing attention because it wants your attention. It wants attention, love, and affection. And so by giving these parts and going with compassion and curiosity to these parts and bringing yourself, the internal parent, to these parts of you and being curious and compassionate, you'll get so much further because the resistance will stop.
Cody:
Like, there will be no more push and pull. You'll just be, like, bringing love to it. And that is a huge, huge, huge help. And all of a sudden, that part becomes more open. Because if I am curious with you to change your opinion on something, it's far better if I'm curious and seek to understand your position. Right? You're more likely to then if I give an alter like, a different solution, you're way more likely, to at least even take a look at what I'm suggesting. If I have spent 50 minutes of a 60 minute session understanding and validating and really getting to know you at your core. Because you at that point, there's no way that I wouldn't I would suggest something without that understanding because I've sat there with no agenda.
Cody:
And that's the biggest thing. People go with these agendas. I want this to go away. I want to fix this. And that Yeah. Agenda is what gets in the way of really true healing, and helping these parts, like, get to know you and love you. So that would be naming them, getting to know them, coming to them with curiosity, compassion without without an agenda, can be super helpful. And find them in your body.
Cody:
That's the other thing too. They always they're always in your body somewhere, and they usually hang out in the same spot in your body. So if you just take a second, focus, find it in your body, and just focus your attention on that part and just see what comes up. Picture sounds, taste, smells, movies, images, whatever. It's different for everybody. Colors. And then just see what who who are you? What part are you? Or if you're searching for a specific part, what's your intention for me? What's your hope for me? What are you afraid would happen if you didn't do your job? And just asking some of these questions can really help it feel understood and validated.
Freya Graf:
Yeah. Beautiful. I love that you brought that somatic piece in because, you know, you have this neuroscience background, but there's nothing is in isolation. And that somatic, like, body based feeling part, is so important and tied in. And, like, something that I've always struggled with because, I haven't done internally family internal family systems specifically, but there's a lot of modalities that involve similar types of methods, with that. And, you know, the the kind of common advice of of, like, you know, don't try and avoid the negative, quote unquote negative feeling. Really just acknowledge it, feel it, sit with it, see where it is in your body, like, go into it. Like, have a big old hangout with it, and and I have no problem with doing that.
Freya Graf:
My worry is, like, you know, I'm with, like, the negativity bias of, like, being really focused on, you know, the worst case scenario and this this the bad stuff as a survival mechanism, and then, like, living, you know, as a lot of us do with, like, so much stress, so much stress and negative thinking patterns that have turned into, like, chronic depressive or anxiety conditions after just years of nervous system dysregulation, multiple layers of trauma, without any modeling of how to manage this. I always worry that, like, then giving it more airtime and, like, sitting and feeling all the, like, quote unquote negative stuff could be leading my neural pathways to, like, become so deeply furrowed to those negative kind of emotions and feelings and and the depression and things like that, through, like, repetition and, like, the neuroplasticity is kinda like I'm, like, freaking out that it's working against me and that I'm really solidifying the neural pathways that I don't wanna be solidifying. And then therefore, it's harder and harder to get out of those and create and strengthen positive ones. So I'm always in this, like, torn place where I'm like, okay. Well, I know that, like, you know, the theory is, like, you gotta, like, feel the feelings and be in it and but, like, what if I'm just re solidifying and cementing those neural pathways to, like, more negative ways of thinking and more stress and more depression? Like, asking for a friend, obviously.
Cody:
No. This is this is so beautiful because I talk about this all the time. Because what you're describing is retraumatization, and that is being in the feeling and fully, like, being in it and associating inside of it. What I'm talking about with IFS is an observation of this part of you that is struggling to where you're not in the feeling, and it's not IFS called it blended. You're not blended with the emotion where you are feeling the anxiety and the panic and all that kind of stuff or whatever the trauma response may be, where you get stuck in it. And the other concept in self or in IFS is something called self. And so the concept of self is, and why I love IFS so much is that it's not about in the framing that you just articulated, which is, like, makes a lot of sense is there's a therapist and then there's the client. And what's happening in the client, the therapist is responsible for making sure bad stuff doesn't happen.
Cody:
Right? And their safety and stuff. And the healing mechanism in that dynamic is the therapist. In IFS, the healing mechanism is actually the self and everybody has a self, which is the most you that you can be. It's like the core. It's a seed of your consciousness. It's it's like the deepest version of you. It's calm. There's the 8 c's and the 5 p's that kind of help explain what it is, but it's the the it's the curious.
Cody:
It's calm. It's compassionate. It's clear, connected, confident, persistent, playful patient. Like, it has perspective. It's completely present. And that's the healing mechanism in IFS. And it's like an internal parent. It's like the internal leader.
Cody:
And that is the what is healing, doing the healing in IFS. And so in IFS, you don't, as the therapist or coach or whatever or practitioner, you're not responsible for your client healing, their self is. And you're really there to help bring some self energy, because self energy is like a spark. And when you bring self energy, it lights the self energy inside of them, and helps them kind of see what that looks like. And they can mirror that, but they are healing themselves. And the beautiful thing about self, because what what you're describing is one of the biggest fears about trauma work is I will become overwhelmed. If I let this part out, I'll become overwhelmed. I won't ever stop crying.
Cody:
I I won't ever I wanna kill myself. I want to have a panic attack or whatever. And the thing about it is that the self is invincible. Like, it can handle anything. And so when people start to realize that uncontrollable, feeling or experience, but that that does not happen. And in fact, if it wants help, it's not in its best interest to overwhelm you. Because if you help if you if you if it overwhelms you, you couldn't actually help rescue it. And so when you give it that hope, and it's like, hey, I love you, buddy.
Cody:
Hell, like, if if you overwhelm me, I can't help you. I wanna be close to you and help you. Would that be cool with you? If you just took a couple steps back and unblend for me, because this is you. And this is that part when it blends with you. Can you just step back so I can see you and really be with you? And never ever ever in thousands of sessions, have I had someone when you ask a part to unblend a little bit so that you can help it, it doesn't listen, because it's just not in this much interest. And so that's there's a very, very big difference in observing these traumatized parts with the self and bringing healing energy towards that part and observing it and being with it. That big difference than reexperiencing and retraumatizing yourself without that healing mechanism and just hoping your therapist can help you deal with whatever's going on. It's a huge difference.
Cody:
So I'm glad that you asked that question because that's a very, very common thing.
Freya Graf:
Yeah. It is, isn't it? I often have have clients just saying, like, I'm I'm too afraid to, like, let myself cry or fully go there because I'm afraid I will never stop crying, and I will drown, and I will never be able to get back out of that hole if I let myself fall down into that pit. So, it's a really common fear. I feel it myself, at times. So, yeah, it's beautiful to, like, differentiate between re because that's how I think that's what I have been doing in the past is, like, totally re traumatizing myself by trying to follow this advice of, like, you know, don't don't try to, sever yourself off from those emotions just because they're uncomfortable. Like, give them space, give them compassion, feel them fully. But I I think I I don't have a problem feeling things fully. I already feel things way, way, way more fully than probably a lot of people.
Freya Graf:
And so in trying to give them more space and airtime, I probably am, like, going way too deeply into it and identifying with it too much and then kind of retraumatizing myself. So it's good to, like, have a bit of clarity around the difference between that and and just deep blending.
Cody:
Well, Anne's staying stuck too because that's the other piece in a lot of trauma therapy is they'll have you go screaming out in a pillow, but they're not helping you rescue the part that's stuck. Because what happens inside trauma is that you get stuck in a trauma loop, and trauma is like gravity. It holds that part down in that loop. So you're getting you're you're watching your dad leave when you're young or you're getting beat up or something bad is happening. You're just stuck in that trauma loop. And then throughout your entire life, every time something that matches that pattern happens again, it's just adding to the trauma loop. And so that part of you just stays stuck, getting worse and worse and worse and bigger and bigger and bigger so that when you do let it out, there's a big eruption of stuff that comes out. And so what happens is people go and they do this cry it out, on top of mountain type stuff, and it's awesome.
Cody:
Yeah. And they they they they get into the emotion, but then they leave it in that trauma loop. And so then all it's doing is is cycling back through like a gift that just plays over and over and over and over again. So you do some of the releasing and feel, seen, heard, validated. That's amazing. Love it. But then you put it back in a slow box, and it stays in its little loop, and it just starts to store that emotion more and more and more and more because it's stuck. In IFS, there's an exile release process that allows you to actually pull that exile out of that trauma week, pull it through a threshold, bring it into the present with you, and then take that burden, it's called an unburdening is what it's called, and because it's holding on to this big, scary burden.
Cody:
And the feeling that I'll never be able to fully let go of that burden is really that overwhelming, it will never go away. Because there's never been hope that they could do something different. But in IFS, you can go to that part and and bring it out of that trauma loop and bring it into the present or bring it I've had people bring stuff. They wanna go to a space station. They wanna go to the beach. They wanna go, like, into a forest. Like, they wanna go on top of a mountain, wherever they wanna go. You just teleport there and bring this young part with you, and then help it release that trauma.
Cody:
And this is obviously something that you should definitely be doing with someone who's stranded in this. Just be clear. But you can ask it. Okay. What do you want to let go of, and how do you wanna let go of it? And some people are like, I wanna burn it with fire. I wanna let it float into the air. I want to wash it away with water. I want, to, have lightning zap it out of my body.
Cody:
And you unburden that and release that burden. And I literally have seen people that are hunched like this just, like, open up and their whole back pops when they're, like, unburden this. And then, okay, what did you lose when you took on this burden? And every freaking time, they're like, I love and curiosity and playfulness. And there are these constant themes of just like children. I I wanna color. I wanna play. I wanna explore. I wanna do all these different things.
Cody:
I was like, great. Let's bring those back in, and let's bring in the things that you want because you just released. You just have you just left lots of space. Let's bring in the positive things you want, and then you can reintegrate that into your system, Having healed it and pulled it out of its traumatic space. So if you go reexperience it but leave it there, it's just gonna, like, go through that trauma loop over and over again, and just continue to get build that burden and build up the until it needs to be released again. Whereas if you pull it completely out and fully heal it and then reintegrate it, completely different. And oftentimes, it's bringing wisdom to you that you didn't even know you had. Because these traumatized parts, like, get looped down like this.
Cody:
And I like to imagine that they're inside of what they're holding. There's a gem. There's a jewel inside of what they're holding. It's like the deepest wisdom you could ever find. And when they're able to open up and release, that wisdom comes out, and it's you're just like, well, I feel like a different person. So that's the last that's like the end of or the last thought I have on, like, being scared of release and stuff.
Freya Graf:
Yeah. Yeah. Beautiful. Thank you. I always, I'm not a visual person, so all the modalities like gestalt therapy and these sorts of things where you're doing visual processes or guided visualizations to kind of find the thing and pull it out and do this. You know, I really struggle with them, and I'm wondering if there's some other strategies like nervous system regulation techniques or something like that that we can kind of, suggest for people who either don't have access to a therapist or have the resources to to hire someone right now, but maybe wanna start doing a few little practical things themselves to help, regulate their nervous system post breakup or in preparation to leave, a toxic relationship.
Cody:
For sure. Doctor Ramani just wrote a book. She's awesome. I highly recommend reading that book. That's a great resource. Simple. No bad parts by doctor Schwartz is another great book, that is super, super helpful. Doctor Romy also has an amazing YouTube channel, which has tons of completely free content.
Cody:
Obviously, we do tons of free content as well on all the social media platforms. They can be super, super helpful. I also have, a free trauma release guide for post breakup, on and the list the link in my bio and literally any of my social medias, and it's completely free. And there's, like, over 50 or 60 different nervous system regulation tools inside of that, all, like, from polyvagal theory, from how ice baths can help you, from what nutrition and supplements you could be taking to help bring down inflammation in your nervous system, to exercises, because exercise is interesting because it actually increases inflammation. And so there's some specific types of exercises that can help you, with, like, actually getting the benefit without increasing, without increasing, like, too much cortisol and things like that. There's sleep hacks. There's literally, there's humming. There's meals to cook.
Cody:
There's so many things inside of that that can be super helpful as well, because I get this question all the time. So I just put and I just add to it all the time too. So I just put everything all in one spot as much as I possibly can.
Freya Graf:
Mhmm. Yeah. Beautiful. I know. It's there's so many good practical things nowadays. I I fall into the trap of being really overwhelmed by it all and not knowing which you know, because habit forming is so difficult, especially when you are working with complex trauma. But, yeah, even if you can just choose, like, 1 or 2 things and just start doing those, it's absolutely better than nothing. I'm just looking at the time.
Freya Graf:
I'm like, oh my god. I've got, like, 15 other questions I was gonna ask. I don't know what I was thinking trying to fit all of this in, but, I love that you mentioned polyvagal theory as well. There's lots of different kind of, like, bodies of work that are all very interconnected, so people should definitely go and do some some research and check out Cody's content. But I'm wondering if you can just leave us with a little TMI story because we haven't actually done that segment yet. I know I'm pushing it for time, but do you have a story that would usually be considered too much information for general consumption that you feel comfortable sharing with us.
Cody:
I guess there's one in relationships. It's one that's vile that people are like, no freaking way. But I didn't lose my virginity till my 2nd semester in college. That's how intense the sexual shame and things like that from, like, religion and all that kind of stuff was. So that
Freya Graf:
How old do we how old would that be?
Cody:
18 or 19.
Freya Graf:
Yeah. So Yeah.
Cody:
It was wild.
Freya Graf:
That wild. It's the age is getting I mean, yeah, I'm meeting a lot of people who who haven't had sex in their in their twenties, mid twenties. And, I mean yeah. That that, that's tricky because there's also this mounting pressure, the peer pressure, the, like, feeling of shame that you haven't done it and the fear around, you know, just such a big build up to it. Was it a positive experience when you did finally have intercourse? Oh, okay. Well, that's good at least.
Cody:
Yeah. No. It was good. I mean, I the person I hooked up with for the first time, it was yeah. It was a great time. I mean, no, like, very, like, nurturing, like, here's show me the ropes type of stuff. Like, it was a pretty good experience or whatever. So that was, that was cool.
Cody:
It was just wild. Like and I don't Yeah. Talk about that a ton. So, I mean, that would be one. The mental health side, having the when I started having panic attacks, that was the biggest thing for me, when I just got to such a state of because I'm like the nervous system regulation dude. Like, I wear an anxiety, like, necklace at all times or whatever. But in relation to, like, when I first started having pain attacks, that was just, like, a big moment where I was just, like, like, trying to run a start up and raise money for a start up. I was in a toxic relationship.
Cody:
And then one of my best friends was struggling with some mental health challenges himself, and I live with them. And so it just all of these things were happening once. I and I just had my I panic hacked for the first time. I was just, like, freaking out. I had to I went over to to me, because I could go because I didn't even know it was happening to me. I had to go to my girlfriend's place, and I was just like my heart was beating, like, the whole thing. And I was just like, what is happening? This has never happened to me before. And I just had gotten to such a state of high stress that Yeah.
Cody:
Like, I had whiteness. I had wiped my beard coming in. Like, it was insane that I had gotten that high, nervous system wise. And it's just it's just vulnerable, I guess, to talk about in relation because I'm generally helping people with these types of things. Yeah. But it is because I have personal experience. Absolutely a personal experience with them.
Cody:
Hey, Megan. If you'd like to support the potty and you've already given it 5 stars on whatever platform you're listening on, I wanna mention that you can buy some really dope merch from the website and get yourself a labia lounge tote, tea, togs. Yep. You heard that right. I even have labia lounge bathers, or a cute fanny pack if that'd blow your hair back. So, if fashion isn't your passion though, you can donate to my buy me a coffee donation page, which is actually called buy me a soy chai latte because I'll
Freya Graf:
be the first to admit, I'm a bit of a Melbourne cafe tosser like that. And, yes, that is my coffee order.
Cody:
You can do a one soft donation or an ongoing membership and sponsor me for as little as 3 fat ones a month. And I also offer 1 on 1 coaching and online courses that'll help you level up your sex life and relationship with yourself and others in
Freya Graf:
a really big way. So every bit helps because it ain't cheap to put out a sweet podcast, into the world every week out of my own pocket. So I
Cody:
will be undyingly grateful if you support me and my biz financially in any
Freya Graf:
of these ways. And if
Cody:
you like, I'll even give you a mental BJ with my mind from the lounge itself. Salty. And, I'll pop the links in the show notes. Thank you. Later.
Freya Graf:
Yeah. Yeah. Which is actually such an asset, but I really I get that that feeling of, you know, imposter syndrome that can come through when you're like, surely, I should know better. This is my shit. This is the stuff I'm supporting people with, like, as if this is happening to me. But I think that that's that's generally a pretty overall a pretty, big asset to you as a as a practitioner and someone that supports people. But, yeah, that's that's so intense. It feels like you're literally dying.
Freya Graf:
I've only had maybe 1 or 2 panic attacks, and I just didn't know what it was because I just had no experience with that. And I was like, what the fuck is happening to me? And it's terrifying. It's just the worst thing. So, yeah, that sounds so intense, and I appreciate you sharing about
Cody:
that. One I just thought about, replacing this is kinda funny, but TMI for sure is that I mentioned that I got out of that relationship, like, a year ago, and I just recently start started dating and seriously in, like, the last couple months probably. And in that relationship, we hadn't, had sex for, like, the last 6 months or whatever of the relationship because we just it just wasn't Yeah. We used to remember. So by the time I started, I started dating, and not only had it been, like, four and a half years almost since I had my first date, that was wild. But the thing that messed me up was like, damn, dude. There was a part of me that was, like, anxious about having sex again with someone new. Because I was like, did I forget how to do this? And there was just like, will I know what to do? Will, like, it work right? Did what I do in the last relationship for, like, 4 years? Is that what everybody does? Like and, like, I just had all of this intense anxiety around, around this, like, having sex again or whatever as I started dating again.
Cody:
And that was something I worked with my therapist on. I was just, like, a lot more more than I would like. I don't know. It's just wild to think about it, but that's, that's that's definitely one. That's a better one. That's the best one probably so far. And it it turned out so related. Everything is cool now.
Freya Graf:
Okay. Okay. Cool. Cool. Cool. Good to know you. That was gonna be my follow-up question. How did you go? Because it's a big fucking deal.
Freya Graf:
It's a really big deal, and it is. It's, like, very anxiety inducing when you haven't been with a new person for many years. And, you know, after an abusive relationship, your confidence isn't the best either and, potentially, yeah. I mean, you're carrying all this. Yeah. I mean, that's my jam. I love that stuff. I love helping people with that stuff and talking about it.
Freya Graf:
So I'm glad you shared that one, and I'm glad it went well and you're back on the horse and back in the dating world. But, yeah, it's it's definitely a pretty confronting time when you start getting that anxiety because, like, sexual anxiety and performance anxiety is, like, you know, one of the number one things that can actually make the experience turn out exactly how you don't want it to, you know, especially if you have a penis because erections are very responsive to, stress and your nervous system. So I'm glad that you managed to, yeah, come out on top.
Cody:
Yes. Yeah. I agree. That's that I mean, that is interesting. I had an experience with that recently as well because I was in a rush where I was trying to hook up with somebody, and we were in a rush. It's somebody I've been talking to for a while or whatever. And I was at the first for the first moment, I was, like, having, like, a semi like, my heart was beating, like, panicky type feeling, and I was just like, yeah. This isn't it's not listening to me.
Cody:
It is why I literally said to this person. And luckily, she's an extraordinarily chill and, like, compassionate human. So it was, like, all cool, but, yeah, that was that was wild. I hadn't had that happen to me ever before either, and I was just like, what the fuck? Yeah. So Yep. That's another TMI story.
Freya Graf:
Yep. Love it. We just got, like, 4 for the press of 1. So good. Yeah. And all of your nervous system stuff and regulation stuff would be such an asset in the bedroom because, you know, our sexual functioning is so so so so tied to our nervous system. And, yeah, a lot of the things that I teach people around that are very nervous system based because yeah. It's just it's all yeah.
Freya Graf:
Alright. Beautiful. Well, I should let you go. I'm gonna put links to your work in the show notes. But yeah. So appreciative for you sharing your time and your expertise, and I'd love to have you back on because I have a surplus of questions that I didn't even get to. It's a big topic. I was being ambitious.
Freya Graf:
But, yeah, so lovely to chat, Cody.
Cody:
Yeah. Thanks so much for having me on. I appreciate it.
Freya Graf:
Rock and roll. And that's it, darling hearts. Thanks for stopping by the labia lounge. Your bum groove in the couch will be right where you left it just waiting for you to sink back in for some more double l action next time. If you'd be a dear and subscribe, share this episode or leave a review on Itunes, then you can pat yourself on the snatch because that's a downright act of sex positive feminist activism. And you'd be supporting my vision to educate, empower, demystify and destigmatize with this here podcast. I'm also always open to feedback, topic ideas that you'd love to hear covered, questions or guest suggestions. So feel free to get in touch via my website or over on Insta.
Freya Graf:
You can also send me in TMI stories to be shared anonymously on the pod. My handle is Freya Graff_ the labia lounge if my account hasn't been deleted for being too sex positive, which, you know, is always a possibility with censorship. But just in case the chronic censorship finally does obliterate my social channels, I'd highly recommend going and joining my mailing list and snagging yourself some fun freebies for the trouble at www.freaghraff.com/freebies. Anyway, later labial legends. See you next
Cody:
time.