First Sex Party Stories at a Virtue & Vice Play Party

Freya Graf:

This program is brought to you by Pussy Magnets. Put a minge on your fridge with a pussy magnet. Welcome, welcome, my lovely lumps. Or should I say, lovely labs. I'm so thrilled to have you here in the Labia Lounge. We're going to yarn about all things sexuality, womanhood, relationships, intimacy, holistic health and everything in between your legs. Ooh, can't help myself. Anyway, we're gonna have vag loads of real chats with real people about real shit.

Freya Graf:

So buckle up. You're about to receive the sex ed that you never had. And have a bloody good laugh while you're at it. Before we dive in, I'd like to respectfully acknowledge the traditional custodians of the land on which I'm recording this. The Wurundjeri people of the Kulin Nation. It's an absolute privilege to be living and creating dope podcast content in naam. And I pay respect to their elders, past, present and emerging. Now, if y' all are ready, let's flappin do this.

Freya Graf:

Oh, my God. Is there such thing as too many vagina jokes in the one intro? Whatever. It's my podcast. I'm leaving it in. Don't panic. You're not broken. Your sex education was a piece of shit. Get your flaps out and pull up a couch.

Freya Graf:

It's a labia lounge. Hey, gang, just before we jump into this episode, I wanted to offer you an opportunity to access my new mini course for free before I start charging for it in future. It's for people with vulvas and it's quick to complete. It's all about demystifying the female body and pleasure anatomy and getting some basic fundamentals to understand your body better. It's called Pussy Pleasure Roadmap to bedroom bliss. You can grab it on the freebies page of my website or in the show notes. It's a great little free resource to kind of dip your toe in or act as a bit of a taster for my work. So if you've ever been curious about this sort of thing and you just don't know where to start, or you want a really quick, easy, accessible, non threatening way to get the ball rolling and start working on this stuff, this is a great place to start.

Freya Graf:

Hey, my labial legends, welcome back. For this episode, I actually returned to Virtual Advice's signature play Party Boudoir. And if you haven't already listened to my other episodes on this, you should totally go back and check out the following episodes. Vanilla Queen goes to her first sex party. That was a recounting of my first ever sex party maybe nine months ago, behind the scenes of a sex party with Virtua and Vice. And the final episode, which was a whole bunch of interviews and chats with partygoers, is called Live at a Sex Party Chats with Partygoers at Virtue and Vice Play Party. They're really incredible glimpses into this scene. And I've already had some absolutely rad chats with people in this community, so I was very excited to return.

Freya Graf:

And this episode is going to be a bunch of interviews and chats that I had at Virtue and Vice's latest event at Melbourne Pavilion, and also peppered in there a couple of little conversations that I recorded at a previous event and just never kind of released because I sort of felt at the time a little bit vulnerable about it, because they were quite candid chats that myself and my little team had in the beer garden while we were off duty. At the end of the episode, there's a really big discussion with my two assistants, one being a friend and one being a sort of potential lover at the time, where we chatted about my relationship to sex and love and kink, and actually unpacked our kind of navigating of that in real time. And at the start of the episode, it begins with a little bit of drama, a little bit of scandal from the party a few months ago. And we tie up that loose end towards the end of the episode. And then in the middle, there's a whole heap of just fascinating conversations that I had on the lounge with partygoers who really generously opened up about their experiences in the sex party scene or the swinger lifestyle. It's a super cool and just incredible insight into this world. And I just want to thank everyone who was courageous and open enough to come and have a chin wag with me for this episode. I will say that the sound is pretty nuts, as is pretty common with these live events.

Freya Graf:

I set up the Cunt couch, the Pussy Lounge, inside the venue for people to come and have a sit and have a yarn on the actual live Labia Lounge with me. But that sort of means that there's music in the background from the stages and that's quite loud. So some parts of some of the recordings ended up being unusable. I've done my best to just cut together the decent bits and make it really bearable to listen to. So I hope that you, yeah, still get some juice out of this. I'm pretty obsessed with some of the conversations that I had with these fucking incredible Fascinating people. Yeah. So that's enough from me for now.

Freya Graf:

I'll let you dive in and as always, comment on the episode or DM me to let me know your thoughts. So. So I've arrived at this party and I go inside, I'm looking around for Freya. I can't find her. So I end up just like scouting out the party and just seeing where the different corners are. What's like this section? What's that section? Maybe I'll see Freya around there. So I'm just sort of like looking around and it's probably maybe like 5, 10 minutes, who knows? And I'm getting back to the start, which is right near the entrance. And at the entrance I look across and I, I see someone.

Freya Graf:

And I'm like, ah, that actually looks a lot like my stepbrother. And I'm like, wait. And I do a double take and I'm like, oh, yep, that's, that's my stepbrother. And then he hasn't noticed me. And in my head I'm like, okay, this is going to be super awkward if my sister's not there, but it's even going to. It's potentially more awkward if she's there as well. And so I just like hung out for a little bit and I was like, I've got to say hi, I've just got to see. And he's like chatting to this blonde girl and I'm like, okay, that's weird.

Freya Graf:

I'm not sure who that is. Could be a friend. And then I. And then she turns around, it turns out that's my sister in a blonde wig. In a blonde wig, dressed as. I'll keep that anonymous. She's in full costume. She's in full costume.

Freya Graf:

Love, love. Get it, girl. And her face when she realizes it's me. Oh, wow. I don't think I've, I've ever experienced something like that. Whoa. And yeah, it probably takes her about, I want to say two minutes to kind of like actually walk up to me. Yeah.

Freya Graf:

And be verbal. Yeah. She goes non verbal. She goes full nonverbal. And my brother in law is kind of laughing, but you can tell he's a bit awkward. And my sister's still not speaking and I'm just like, hey, look, you know, I get this is probably a pretty, pretty big shock. I'm okay with this. Like, this isn't like, I don't see you any different.

Freya Graf:

Like, you know, this is fine. I'm glad you get to experience these things. I didn't know that you experience these. Go to these kinds of experiences. And then she's just like, yeah. I'm actually, like, super shocked. I don't know what to do. I'm like, all right, like, let's just like, slow down.

Freya Graf:

What do you need? She's like, I don't know what I need. And I'm like, all right, maybe you go, like, have a conversation with someone. Just chill out, do your thing. But we probably need to have a chat around, like, you know, shared space and. Oh, all the things. You'll have to have a schedule. Like, you get to be in the room at this time and I'll be in the king dungeon, and then we'll swap. Oh.

Freya Graf:

Oh, my God. So, yeah, we. I'm yet to run. Run into it. It's still very early on in the night and I cannot wait to hear how this next time I'm checking in. It's probably after we've had a conversation around, oh, my God. How do you want to experience this evening? I don't know if she would be able to relax fully even if you were like, I'm not going to go into that room at all. You're fine.

Freya Graf:

Like, you know, you've got the next two hours. Go nuts. Like, I feel like she wouldn't be able to just be present and enjoy herself knowing her brother was in the building. Depends on what she's got planned. True. Because, yeah, she might just be here to, like, watch performances and dance and make out. Like, she might not be here to have sex. I love this so much.

Freya Graf:

I mean, I hate it for her. I hate it for her. I kind of love it for you because it's interesting and I know that you, like, aren't phased, but it's a bit to navigate. It's a lot to navigate. Like, my sister's aware that I'm in sexuality spaces and have experienced this and blah, blah, blah. But I think it's more of a shock because now she's kind of been. She's now out of the closet in that way. I'm so surprised that even knowing that you're in these spaces, she hasn't opened up about it.

Freya Graf:

Well, fuck. She said she's like, I thought this would happen one day. Wow. I was scared this would happen. She didn't get ahead of it. And, like, just make sure, you know, you had separate calendars. It's hard to have the affirmative convers or like the. Well, now you have to.

Freya Graf:

Yeah, exactly. So that's great. Family Christmases are never going to be the Same. Oh my God. I made a joke with her about like, oh, I've just told. Oh, I almost said my other sister's name. I made a joke that I've already told the family and we've taken a selfie already, but nah, it definitely hasn't happened. Oh my God.

Freya Graf:

Whoa. Okay. That's epic. I love this. What a drama. Scandal it is. Scandal. This is amazing.

Freya Graf:

I cannot imagine bumping into a sibling here. My brother would fucking melt down. He'd melt down being in this space, I think. But I mean, who knows? Who knows? Did you know this about your sister? Are you surprised? I, you know. No. Yeah, you know, like, I need to be abundantly clear here because if she does ever listen to this, it's not like her vibe gives off. Oh yeah. I go to like sex parties and yeah, that's.

Freya Graf:

But she's open minded enough that you're not that surprised. Well, no, I don't, I'm, I'm trying to literally in live time right now figure this out. Why I'm not surprised. I don't know. Yeah, I feel like just like little bits and pieces I've seen throughout my life. I'm just like, okay, yeah, cool. I think that's a compliment. Yeah.

Freya Graf:

You know, cuz. Yeah, I mean, it's not for the faint hearted. And I would be fucking so shocked. Like, I'm almost 100% certain, like my brother would not ever be down with something like this ever. Like, I would be super surprised. You never know. Maybe I'm not giving him enough credit, but like, yeah, I mean, actually him and like his partner and like all my siblings and cousins actually have gotten really into fairy smut lately. They've been like reading like erotica, like fantasy erotica.

Freya Graf:

But my brother did say, and I will kind of echo this because I agreed because I'd never read any of it. But everyone's banging on about it. My family are talking about these sexy books all of a sudden, which is like so not on brand. Like, they don't even ever ask me about my work because they would be horrified to even have a conversation about it. They're aware of what. Yeah, yeah, I guess so. But they don't want to know. They don't want to hear about it.

Freya Graf:

They never asked me about it. They're terrified of hearing something that makes them really uncomfortable because it must be very confronting. I guess so. Yeah. I was like, wow, they're talking about like sexy books. Like, that's pretty new territory. Okay, wow. So I was like, I'll read these books.

Freya Graf:

But my brother said like, oh yeah. Like, you know, like, it's. I just like this because we. We all read fantasy and we like the plot, we like the stuff. And he's like, I like the story. And you know, the books are pretty good, but like every time there's a sex scene, I'm like, oh God, here we go. Gotta bloody get through this to get back to the story. And I'm like, yeah, same.

Freya Graf:

Because the sex scenes in these books, like, once you've read one, you've read them all. And I'm like, I don't care. This is boring. To me it sounds like really, like hectic sex. That isn't really my brand anyway. And it's unrealistic as fuck because it's so sensationalized. And I'm like, I just want to get back to the dragons and the fairies, you know? So anyway, I'm shook right now. I'm.

Freya Graf:

That is such a surprising response. Like, I'm actually like, it's weird that I'm a sex coach, right? Sometimes it just. But that means, I guess in that way you kind of like holding the polarity of like, you're bringing a very unique perspective to sex and intimacy in that way. I'm the sex coach for the Vanill Nils, I guess. But also I'm very open minded. So it's like, I might not be into it, but I get why people are and I'm like stoked for them. But yeah, like, it's just not. It doesn't do it for my brain.

Freya Graf:

Like, occasionally, like, I'll read a sex scene and I'll be like, slightly turned on. But like, I mean, I don't even watch porn. Like, it just doesn't. Yeah, good. Porn's terrible. Cool. Okay. We popped around a lot on these topics.

Freya Graf:

Yeah, yeah. This has been awesome. I'm curious about your first ever sex party, if you remember. Play party. Sex party. Like, do you have a story or an anecdote about the early days when you started exploring together or individually? Either or both. I think we both used to. We both previously went separately.

Freya Graf:

I worked. I lived in London for a while and I went to Killing Kittens, which was. Have you heard of Killing Kittens? No. They did. So my first. I don't know if this was the first party, but this was my first memory, so I have a terrible memory. It was a. It was.

Freya Graf:

So I came across a website called Killing Kittens. And it was basically a group of people that were like, sexually adventurous and you had to sort of apply to be a member. And then they had these sort of private parties and in the UK they had this manor house. So I went to the manor house and it was like something out of Eyes Wide Shut. It was like a masquerade ball. It was all for women. So you go in there and they, they give you the rules, which was all like the women, whatever the women want they get, you know, like the men are just there to play with basically. And, and it was good, right? Cuz.

Freya Graf:

And, and I went there and they had like a fire pit and a swimming, indoor swimming pool, spa pool, dj. Like it was like, it was nuts. It was like something out of. And, and I was like walking around all these rooms in this like literal mansion. There were people in that room and watching and there were other people. Like there was just wild. And I, I remember being nervous but very quickly chilling out because I think what people underestimate about the environment is that the people are so welcoming and so accepting. So much more in any.

Freya Graf:

Than any part of society I've ever been in. And that's what I love about it, you know, And I think they, everyone made me feel so comfortable, you know. And I've been to sex parties and not done anything or only made out with my own partner or you know, just used it as like life porn, if you like. Or, and, and, and it's been great. So I think. Yeah. And then we, when we met, we both figured out pretty quickly that we were into that and I, my last partner wasn't. So it was a while since I'd been.

Freya Graf:

And we went to a little bar in Alston sort of area and, and went there together and yeah, it was, it was great because we all, we kind of, we're very liberal. So it was, yeah, it was a really good experience. Yeah. And how quick. And how did you both figure out that you're into this scene? Like, do you kind of mention that quite early on in dating? Because we both. Oh, let's speak to his experience. But we both were in long term relationships with people who were absolutely not into it. And I think, I didn't think it was an issue at the time.

Freya Graf:

But then after coming out of it, I realized that I played down a part of myself. Right. That was important to me and that I couldn't tap into. And so being with someone, I, you know, obviously it's an ideal wish list, but ideally I wanted someone who was open to or who was open liberal sexually, you know, and able to talk about it and communicate about it and and be open to experiences. And I think we. And, and did you have a similar experience? Yeah, we met on Hinge as well and I kind of telegraphed it quite early on that, that I'd want that kind of f. Because having not had that for several years, I did feel like I was quite repressed sexually just being me. I wasn't allowed to be what I wanted to be kind of thing.

Freya Graf:

So I made it quite clear early on that that was kind of the point I'm looking for. And it turned out that like, that's exactly what I got. That's so incredible. I'm very lucky, guys. Yes. Yeah. Did you have a story about one of your early times checking out the cuisine? It was my ex partner probably about 10 years ago and we watched something about Louis Theroux about swinging parties and we're like, oh really? You go do it. And she was like, yeah, cool.

Freya Graf:

She was. She was bisexual, so she's very liberal as well. So we went to a few places. She lived in the southeast, so like random Arabin and like Seaford area. Yeah, the first few times it was terrifying. It's like you don't know what you're walking into. But everyone's so welcoming and open. Like I've never really had a bad experience consent, consent wise, it's just been all seem to manage really well where females given the priority and like the protection they need way more than like a dodgy nightclub.

Freya Graf:

Like Revs in Chapel. Yeah, yeah, yeah, totally, yeah. Chapel Street. So yeah, it's a really safe space to go to with somebody and I think like, it just makes me feel like I don't dress like this normally. It's nice to be able to just do something different and dress ridiculous and just have fun. And we are a bit warrioristic as well. So. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Freya Graf:

So question for the penis owners because I feel like anytime I tell people I'm coming and setting up at one of these things, if it's. If it's someone with a dick, they're like. And that hasn't been involved in this scene, they're like, oh, I just don't. I just don't think I could like get it up or keep it up. Like there'd be so much pressure. Oh, okay. When you were going in the early days and you said you're a bit terrified, like did you have any issues with like performance anxiety or anything like that? No, it's much more social interactions and what to expect from people. I didn't know if people could be everywhere.

Freya Graf:

Trying to be hitting on my. On my partner. Like I didn't know really what to expect, but anxiety wise, performance wise? Nah, not really. It comes and goes. Sometimes you just don't feel it. You're not into the night. But something. Yeah, it depends.

Freya Graf:

It's the same. It's the same for me though as well. Like sometimes, yeah, I don't carry lube around. So, yeah, you know, it either works or it doesn't. And yeah, like I said, quite barbaristic. So I do. It does turn me on. Seeing people watching, having sex, that's a big turn on for me.

Freya Graf:

So that's a big part of it. So, yeah, it's fuel. Amazing. One last question. If there is something. There might not be, but is there anything from this scene that's like missing where you see there could be room for improvement or like a gap in the market or something that you feel like you're not. Not getting that you wished you were. Oh, that's a great question.

Freya Graf:

What do you think? I'd say probably just like more regionally. Like a lot of it's Melbourne and seafood, like south east is not that Geelong way. There's not a lot outside of Melbourne. So it's very Melbourne centric. And it's. If you don't live in Melbourne, it's quite hard to get into. And we met people who traveled for like an hour to get to like Diamond Creek to go to for an hour there and paid a dollar. And it's.

Freya Graf:

Yeah, just. The benefit is more widespread. It gets more accepted than Clinique. People cater for all choices. There's like bondage nights, BDSM nights. Like there's all sorts of different nights. It's well caved, of course. Just very Melbourne centric, I think also just totally off topic.

Freya Graf:

But one of the things I love about it is body positivity because as a woman, I'm always self conscious about my body, but I never feel better about my body than when I'm half naked at a swingers party because I see all the bodies, right. And everyone looks great and sexy and like. And I just. And people own it. And it's. It's really good to see all the different shapes and sizes and to see people owning that, you know, because you don't really see that. And so. And as a woman, it's.

Freya Graf:

It just is quite. It's good. It helps me feel better about my own body when I see other people. Like, you know. So for me, that's a big part of it as well is seeing all these other bodies, bigger, smaller, taller, shorter, whatever. Also in lingerie and just owning it and looking great and feeling great. And I think that's a good message, you know. So I think.

Freya Graf:

Yeah, that's important. Yeah. No you don't, you don't like social things. That's what I mean. Yeah. Where it's, it's so refreshing. One of the first things I noticed cuz I'm pretty new to the scene. Yeah.

Freya Graf:

Okay. I just was like what the. It's so cool how liberating and like just comfortable and non judgmental everyone is. And it's so great that there's none of this kind of like almost especially among women. Like women judging us. Self criticizing and self depreciation. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, I'm feeling so fat.

Freya Graf:

Yeah. So much. Yeah. Well, have you seen my skin on? Yeah, yeah. Like that. Everyone's just out in crowds. Yeah, yeah. Feeling themselves here and it's really nice to be around.

Freya Graf:

Yeah. When you get back, between friends, wine bar, we talk to so many people. Like it doesn't happen at normal bars. Like you just sit talking about daft shit. Like once you've gone to like other swingers bars, just connecting, it's really easy to talk to other people without having that like false potential. Why are you talking to me like you know what you're here for? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's it. Yeah, completely. Yeah.

Freya Graf:

And so. Okay, one last question. So do you guys come and play with others when you're here or you mostly engage with each other and just enjoy being sort of seen by others? It's mostly each other. We've been together for like nine months so it's still quite early on. Previous relationships. I didn't do a lot with other people and my partner was bisexual so she was cool with that. That's fine for me. But no, at the minute we just enjoy the voyage and part of it and yeah, it's huge.

Freya Graf:

But you speak for yourself. Yeah, I have, I have. Not with Sean, but with other partners. I have played with other people but it's not. I really, to be honest, to get off. I have, I have a need for an emotional connection which I don't get from randoms and I fucked a lot of randoms in my time and wasn't that great half the time. So like for me I, I would. It's not that I wouldn't but at the moment our sort of rule of is only we play with each other.

Freya Graf:

But that might change in the future. But at the moment I think we get what we need from it just by talking to other people, having social connections and. And then using it as a way to enjoy ourselves more. But it's not. It's not necessarily to find a threesome or to do that kind of thing, because I've done that before, and it's just. It's okay. But it's not something I am seeking. If you like.

Freya Graf:

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. All right. Thank you so much. You're welcome. What's your podcast? Vulva Lounge. Vulva Lounge. The lady. Hello.

Freya Graf:

Hello. Thank you for joining me. Pleasure. Love your earrings. Thanks. I made them. Actually, I've got some for sale over there. Okay.

Freya Graf:

So would love to hear about your first ever play party or sex party experience. Who wants to go first? Yep. I'm happy to jump in because Virtue and vice, about eight months ago was my first. Was it here? It was here. Yeah. That was. I think that was my first November. I think so.

Freya Graf:

Yeah. I think so. Did we cross paths? I was, like, very tentatively dipping. I was doing, like, a recce mish to see if this. This would be a vibe here. Yeah. 100 agree. That's came along.

Freya Graf:

My mindset stoned as. And I was like, oh, my God. Yeah. So that was my best. Yeah. Yeah. I loved it. Obsessed.

Freya Graf:

It was. I feel like it set a really high bar for me, unfortunately, because I think that there's such a liberty to coming into a play space and not knowing anyone and having every opportunity. The longer you're in the scene, the more complex it gets with existing playfriends and dynamics that you then need to consider. So I think that the first time walking in and having every opportunity open to you was really hot. And there's experiences that I've chased since, and they haven't hit the same. And I think it was part of that novelty to it being my first time. That was just so hot. Whoa.

Freya Graf:

Okay. So when you're talking about, like, existing dynamics to navigate and things like that, like, anonymously, like, can you give me an example of, like, what you now have to kind of factor in and, like, you know, are you arriving and kind of going, I played with that person last time, but I don't want to be tethered. And how do I, like, tell me, what are the ins and outs? Yeah, I mean, that's kind of it. And it's. I don't know if I necessarily agree that it's about being tethered, but it's more about being considerate of where they're at, what their Needs are and also my needs. So if the play experience wasn't my favorite the last time, would I be pursuing that again? Probably not. So then being aware of that person in the space and obviously being comfortable to advocate for yourself and being able to say no in that situation. But having that consideration is a different frame of mind to be in than when you are just really fresh, bright eyed, bushy tails coming into it for the first time.

Freya Graf:

Yeah. And you're like fresh meat. So everything, hundred percent. There's like a spotlight going through the crowd as you walk through it. It's the sexiest thing. Yeah. But loved it. Okay.

Freya Graf:

Incredible. How about you? My first was actually shed 16 down in Seaford. Yeah. So that's same people that own Warehorn Wellington. So that was my first experience. Experience. And I had a grand time. But I think that one of the things that people need to remember going into these things is that everybody is there and everyone needs to be respected and to always say no if you're not interested and to hold to those convictions more than anything.

Freya Graf:

But I also think that you need to be very open minded and you need to be very understanding and respectful. That there's lots of different bodies around and to make sure that you're always looking respectful when you're looking at those bodies as well. Yeah. Because if you have a face on you that might be in shock, that can really turn somebody's night, you know, absolutely haywire. And so I think that's another responsibility of anybody that sort of comes here is understanding that even if you're not with those people, be respectful of what they're doing, who they are, what they may look like, and still embrace the pleasure and happiness. I think that's really important. That's so beautiful. Are you talking from personal experience where you felt impacted by someone being conscious of.

Freya Graf:

No, no, no, I have not. I've never. And I'm an absolute exhibitionist. Like I could have 40 people watching me and it's never fucking enough, you know. But it's more that I've seen women in those spaces look very uncomfortable. And then I'm. I'm a girl. Girl.

Freya Graf:

So I'm someone who sees a girl that's uncomfortable and I just want to grab them and be like, babes, you're gorgeous. Like, you know, you're just stunning. And I always think to myself, could people have been a little bit more kind in their looks and their gazes, had a smile on their face instead of maybe a shock that might have affected their night a bit better? You Know, so I think people forget about that sometimes. Totally, totally. Like, it's cool. Watch. I mean, I love people watching, but watch with a smile on your face. You know what I mean? Because that's part of the fun.

Freya Graf:

So for me, yeah, Shed 16 was amazing. I had a great time. Got lost in the maze, but loved the glory hole, so I was fine to get lost in them. Okay, wait, wait, wait. Glory holes? Oh, like, glory hole's my jam. I just love the idea of that, and it's a fantasy that I haven't yet fulfilled, is for me to be totally blindfolded and for Caitlin to pick every single male that is with me for that night and me not to know. Oh, my God. Yeah.

Freya Graf:

Okay, so there was a glory hole at duction. There's one here, right? I haven't seen. Oh, I haven't. We haven't walked around yet. We saw your labia lips and wanted to walk in here. Yes. Glory hole. Okay.

Freya Graf:

So glory hole talked me through the logistics. People put their penis through it. Yeah, they say, so it's a hole, literally, and they put their dick through it, and then you get to suck it and play with it and whatever you like, which is so much fun because, you know, I also have this little thing where I want to go some. I want to go to a glory hole place with another couple, make the boys sit there, and then we suck each other's, you know, each other's boyfriend's dicks, and then they have to work out who's actually doing it. So it's like. It's like, pick the suck. Do you know how well your girlfriend sucks your cock? Or are you wondering who it is? You've got to that. I know, right? Like, how much fun is that? But I've already decided that the girls would have to, like, I would have to swap notes with the other girl about how she sucks her boyfriend's dick.

Freya Graf:

Otherwise they likely to win. Yeah, and we can't have that. Let's be honest here. Can't have that. No, no, no. Okay, so how do you like. Are you two a couple friends? What's the scene? Yes, Both. Yeah, both, Both.

Freya Graf:

So Caitlin was introduced to me by another one of our lovers, and I immediately gravitated to her. I mean, you just heard how she spoke. She's just an amazing creature, articulate Will Smith, intelligent. Goddess. Goddess. We got her there. She's incredibly intelligent. And I gravitate to women that are very similar to me, that have strong values.

Freya Graf:

And so I've taken it. And you're never allowed to leave. Now that's done. What was really important to us from the start was building a rapport outside of that mutual play. Friend as well. So before we'd even met, we had each other's contact details and we knew quite a lot about each other before we'd even had a drink together, which to us I think was really important to solidify a relationship that was independent, that allowed us to advocate for ourselves. Anything else? Yes, absolutely. Absolutely.

Freya Graf:

It was very important to us. Oh my God, I'm obsessed now, if I can be honest, I talk to her more than I talk to our lover. Like easily so. And I told him that the other night. He was like. And I was like, well, it's reality, isn't it? Girls are better to chat with. Like, there's not the one sentence sort of thing. It's actually a paragraph of what's happened during the day, you know, how was your day? Good.

Freya Graf:

Yeah, that tells me a lot. And I'm like, what were your traumas? You can't expand. And now I really, really love her opinion on things and I trust her implicitly. So I know that when we go to events like this, we both are very, very secure and we have each other's back and we wouldn't leave each other. There's like a hog thing that is unsaid that I just know if that makes sense. So beautiful. Thank you. So beautiful.

Freya Graf:

I love that for you guys because I think it would be tricky to navigate spaces like this with someone who, you know, for instance, didn't have amazing communication, didn't have the best boundaries, you know, any kind of people pleasing action going on is like big red flag for me. Like it doesn't work. And then, yeah, just that feeling of implicitly trusting someone to have your back. So important because otherwise I feel like it could be quite traumatic, to be honest. Yeah, I've actually heard when we were fucking someone, I've heard you actually turn around to them and like make sure you put on a condom. And I had no idea what was going on. Face down in the bed, not knowing. And I knew as soon as she said that, I was like, I don't know whether I want to play with that person.

Freya Graf:

She just had to ask him. But I knew that she would have my back in that, if that makes sense. And I think that's one of the most fabulous things that I found in this world is actually having a beautiful friendship like this. Like, you don't have many people that you can trust that implicitly. Really a Very different level of intimacy. It is, it is. You're absolutely right, guys. Makes you sick, doesn't it? There are cycles.

Freya Graf:

The face. All right, well, while I've got you here, because it seems like you guys are very switched on and very across this scene and, like, needs. The needs especially of women. Like, is there something that's kind of missing or that could be done better? Oh, good question. I kind of feel like the scene at the moment is more female dominated than it is male dominated. I think that, if anything, we probably don't give the boys enough of a chance half the time. I think the patriarchy has kind of pushed us to a position where we put women first and certainly this generation that is coming through and are more likely to push that even further than the three of us. So I think that for women, this is actually our time, not theirs.

Freya Graf:

Yeah, definitely. I think that I've been really pleasantly surprised. And I think because it's such a female dominated space that the approach towards consent has been absolutely zero tolerance to anything other than strict adherence to it. So the events that we gravitate towards, they're the ones that are really on the ball about making sure that there's consent angels walking around and, you know, exactly what they look like and how you can find them. And when I've called upon them previously, they have been absolutely phenomenal, and they've done exactly what I was hoping that they would do. So knowing that there's safe advocates in the space for you to be able to touch base with as you need to throughout the night, rather than seeing, you know, opportunities where the industry can change, I'm hoping to recognize the ones that are doing it really well and wanting to. To patronize them more frequently instead. Yeah.

Freya Graf:

And that's why, like, I love these events so much. Like, I interviewed the organizer for a podcast episode a while ago, and it was so phenomenal. Just hearing the amount of, like, thought and intention and effort that gets put into that consent culture and safety and. Yeah, anyway, I'm. Yeah, I'm gonna let you guys get. Thank you so much for the action. So fun. So I've just been asking people about their first play party experience.

Freya Graf:

Oh, that's a good question. For me, it was probably my second or third sexual experience ever. Really was at a gang bang. Yeah, I mean, I was very curious about the whole thing. So I found a thing online and went along to it and, yeah, I didn't know how I would go in that space. And it turns out, like, I'm not put off by being around other people. It's the thing. I'm an exhibitionist, you know, I like the whole group dynamic thing.

Freya Graf:

I just think it's fun. So, yeah, I've been trying to be as fully involved in everything since then as I can. I've been in and out of it over the years. And, like, Covid, obviously, was a bit of a long hiatus, but I'm at a point now where I'm meeting more people, I'm going to things more regularly, and I'm really excited about it. That's so dope. I'm, like, very impressed that. Yes. So early on in your sort of sexual career, you just, like, literally left in the deep end.

Freya Graf:

Yeah. And, like, was that. So when you say gang bang, I'm so vanilla. Sorry. Is it like a bunch of dudes and a girl? Is it just an orgy? It was. Yeah, it was a bunch of. It was a bunch of guys and a girl. And it was an event.

Freya Graf:

And they called it. They called it it gangbangs for goddesses. So the idea was that, like, the women there are the goddesses, and all the men are there to serve them. And the women were still generally quite submissive. They weren't necessarily in the dom role, but it was still like, you are here to fulfil their fantasy and just do what they want, even if that means dominating them. And it was just run out of an apartment, you know, it was a very sort of underground kind of thing. And this was seven or eight years ago now. But, yeah, so it was about four guys to a girl.

Freya Graf:

And it started with a massage, everyone just kind of massaging all different parts. And then it just sort of escalated from there. Wow. And so was there, like, a vetting process? Were these all strangers you found online? I mean, there was, like, you had to send, like, a photo in, basically. And I think the women, they got to sort of say what they wanted looking for in terms of age and height and ethnicity. And so forth. But, yeah, it was a pretty easy thing for me to sort of get involved with privately organized and stuff. Like, organized.

Freya Graf:

They had a website, and it was. They were on FetLife. So I think that's how I met the person who ran it at another event that was just sort of more of a munch and heard about it there, and so followed through to their website and ended up going. Going to it there. And so you said you were, like, not sure how you were gonna go, whether the performance anxiety would strike, but you were just like. I was like, I'm not gonna die wondering. And I went. Awesome.

Freya Graf:

Yeah. So good. Ah, happy for you. Thank you. Fab. Thank you so much. My pleasure. Hey, baby babes.

Freya Graf:

Sorry to interrupt. I just had to pop my head into the lounge here and mention another virtual lounge that I'd love you to get around. It's the Labia Lounge Facebook group that created for listeners of the potty to mingle in there you'll find extra bits and bobs, like freebies behind the scenes or discounts for offerings from guests who have been interviewed on the podcast. They'll also be hopefully inspiring, thought provoking conversations and support from a community of labial legends like yourself. My vision for this is that it becomes a really supportive, educational and hilarious resource for you to have more access to me and a safe space to ask questions you can't ask anywhere else. So head over to the links in the show notes or look up up the Labia Lounge group in Facebook and I'll see you in there. And now back to the episode. So you do photography here? Do you ever attend these events? What's your role in this scene? In general? Yeah, for sure.

Freya Graf:

So, no, I haven't really attended these events. The first time I ever came to an event like this was for photography. I've worked for a few different kind of parties that are like this and I found that this was probably the one that I guess was the best for me in terms of my values and ethics and things like that. But yeah, but I love it. It's. It's kind of part of me growing into who I am now. And yeah, it's an awesome part of my life being able to come to these. I've done a few of them now, so.

Freya Graf:

So getting to like be a foyer and see through the eyes of the camera like these sorts of scenes. Do you get tempted to get involved? Do you think one day that it is? If it is something you're interested in? Yeah, look, I definitely have been tempted. Sometimes when I put the camera down, I do like to be a spectator. I like to go and see what people are doing and, you know, that's like, I guess an arousing thing for me. My partner and I are probably not the type of people that would do this in a public event, but it definitely has crossed my mind. Amazing. Is there anything like you want to share for like a beginner that might be interested in getting involved or like literally anything at all that's kind of interesting, this realm? Yeah, for sure. I mean, anytime I talk to people about this event, I think that everyone does have a little bit of a stigma, thinking that it is way more intense than what it is.

Freya Graf:

And don't get me wrong, there are some spots that can be pretty heated, but I think that the overall kind of atmosphere, especially with virtue and bias, is very safe, very comforting. There's a lot of, like, people that work in the space to make sure that they things are consensual and, as I said, safe, and that everyone's having a really good time. You don't have to be interested in kind of, I guess, having sex or swinging to come to this event. Like, there's some incredible performers and you can support people who are in the sex work industry as well. But, yeah, I think my biggest take whenever I tell people about it is it's not as intimidating as you think it is. Yeah, that's the same with me. I think people assume if you go, you're having sex. Like, you've got to get it go.

Freya Graf:

Yeah. Only, like, 20 of the party are even doing that at any time anyway. Like, most people are just chatting and yelling and dancing and watching performances. Like, it's the best place to dip your toe in without needing to, like, go the whole hole. Yeah. And I definitely think that it's a really cool space to kind of let your freak flag fly if you're someone who likes to dress up. Even if you're not into kink, even if you're not into BDSM or any of that sort of stuff. You want to dress up, you want to have fun, you want to socialize, you want to meet people, you want to feel sexy, and you want to have an opportunity to get out of the house and do something that's not mundane.

Freya Graf:

This is a really cool place to come and feel seen and welcomed. And, like, nothing that you do is judged, you know, like, this is a very welcoming environment. There's no judgment on anyone here. And I think that's the thing that I love the most most about it. And like, the. The. The woman who owns this event and runs this event, like, she is phenomenal. I couldn't speak more highly of her.

Freya Graf:

She's epic. So this wouldn't be as amazing it is as it is without her. Yeah, agreed, Agreed. Like, that was the perfect advertisement. Yeah, I know. Hashtag, not an ad. Affiliate marketing. Yeah, absolutely.

Freya Graf:

Yeah. This is not a paid advertising. How did you get into the scene? Do you want to recount your first ever play experience and how that was? I'm very green, so this is my first. This is my first event. I Actually set up half the beds, so. Well, most actually all of the beds. So I'm very, very new to this and my first play experience, I nearly went over there just a minute ago and then I bailed. So that's.

Freya Graf:

That's my whole experience so far. Okay, so wait, what did you bail on? Did you have a partner ready to go there? Yeah, yeah, yeah. We were going over there and I was like, oh, this doesn't feel like. No, I just met. I just met her at the speed dating as well. Yeah, so it was like at the speed dating and then did she suggest. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah.

Freya Graf:

That's a quick, like, that's serious. It's a quick turnover, isn't it? Yeah, exactly. So I was like, oh, shit. Palpitations, you know, and then. So what'd you say? I just said, sorry, I don't think I feel. Feel comfortable with it right now. Yeah. And she was super chill.

Freya Graf:

Yeah, I just kind of left her there. Yeah, I think maybe not quite my type either. Okay, so it was. There was definitely an attraction thing, but it was like, oh, in the spirit of things, like. Yeah, okay, it. And then I was like, maybe not. Yeah, when in Rome. And then also actually.

Freya Graf:

Oh, yeah, you get pickpocketed in Rome. It's not the holiday you thought it would do. So, like, you found yourself here because you've been helping out with this. Yeah, correct. So I helped with the setup and then they gave. They were like, you get a free ticket, so obviously you can come. You come to the event because we have to pack it down after as well. So it's be a very late evening, bro.

Freya Graf:

Maybe. Or an early morning. Old mate over here wants to leave before it finishes. Oh, no, I've got so much to pack up. You're not going home early? No way, bro. We're gonna pack up, like, basically everything else. Forget about that. And they're gonna be broken in at that stage.

Freya Graf:

Yeah, they are. I think they've already been broken in before, so. No, you just wait until like the last hour. Those beds, inch of space left. Wow. Okay. Wow. Okay.

Freya Graf:

Yeah. I'm pretty sure one bed did actually break at an event. Yeah, no, it has. I've been told. Yeah, definitely broke the bed. All right. So this is like brand new. Brand new.

Freya Graf:

You've never really been in. Involved in this sort of scene or life. Correct. Previously. Okay. Wow. So how are you finding things? I think it's pretty chill, to be honest. Like, it's a pretty good crowd.

Freya Graf:

The speed dating definitely helped break the Ice for me a bit as well, because I did find it kind of feel like a bit of an outsider. So. Yeah, it's really fascinating. Like, I'm not. Excuse me, I'm not. I had some pizza earlier. Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

Freya Graf:

The beer is just like trying not to burp in their faces. Like I'm not, I'm. I've been exploring kind of the avenues a little bit. So I went like to like a munch the other week, which was interesting, just like to meet people and you know, everybody's just people in the end. And I think that that's what people don't realize as well. It's not this like underground like super debaucherous like CD thing that, that it is like this is fairly classy, which is good as well. But yeah, like just in terms of like body liberation and stuff like that. Like I'm definitely more of an advocate for that now as well.

Freya Graf:

So. I love going on nude beach. Nude beach is like my favorite thing now. Like I went once and I'm like, oh my God, this is the best. So like it's just stuff like that. It's just like that kind of opened my eyes a bit to like non sexualized nudity and they're so obviously this is much more sexual, but it doesn't have to be over as well. So yeah, it's super interesting. But I'm from Adelaide, so yeah, if any of my like this give most of my friends a heart attack, you know, like I wanted to see a bit more of the world.

Freya Graf:

Maybe this is too much. I don't know. Pretty deep end. Yeah, it's pretty. It's pretty deep end. Yeah. I just like to get out of my comfort zone and do stuff and. And like maybe I will get in there tonight, but not with that particular human, unfortunately.

Freya Graf:

But no pressure though. That's what I mean. Yeah. First time even being in a space like this, it's pretty overwhelming. There's a lot going on. Yeah. So like go. Yeah, absolutely.

Freya Graf:

So yeah, that's me. There you go. And so you've been getting it into some munches. Is that cuz you've got kinks or you're just curious about. Just curious about meeting people and seeing what that world was like and stuff like that. I think probably, probably just come off the back of just a very traumatic monogamous single dating experience that I'm like, okay, what else is out there? Kind of thing. But I think the more that I do this stuff, the more I feel like I probably am still More inclined to be monogamy and stuff. Yeah, that's what I mean.

Freya Graf:

Like, so at least I won't wonder. Yeah, yeah. So I think that that's, that's a really good benefit of me coming to these, coming to this as well. So, yeah, I'm still open to it and stuff, but long term, I think I'm looking for something more. I'm exactly the same. It's like I'm open minded, I'm non judgmental, I'm fascinated by all of it. I'm very much happy to dip my toe in. And sometimes I wish I was more into this sort of thing because everyone loves it and seems like they're having the best f Cking time ever.

Freya Graf:

Yeah. But like, it's just not me. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So. But it's good because it's like, especially like through my work and through the podcast, I get to like be in these spaces and sample the different scenes and kind of go, okay, well, now I know I had an inkling that it wasn't my thing and now I've kind of pushed myself out of my comfort zone and I'm pretty happy to just come back. Yeah, Like Vanill Nil Minog. Yeah, absolutely. I think it's so good to do, to just, you know, get out of your comfort zone and like sample all the smorgasbord of.

Freya Graf:

Why? Right. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Without that, like. Yeah. You just always be wondering. I think that that was probably my concern. Yeah, it's like, no more not going to wonder. Cuz I mean like in the end pleasure is still pleasure.

Freya Graf:

Like whether you get. You end up in that room or not. Yeah. The outcome's usually the. Do you know what I mean? It's like. Yeah. Is it called the Labia Lounge? Amazing. Love that so much.

Freya Graf:

That's so great. It's a great, It's a great time. Yeah. Did you guys already know? He just beckoned to us. He's good. He's a good. Honestly, best assistant I've ever had. Most of my friends are like me and they're quite introverted and they don't want to approach people.

Freya Graf:

And then we get to events and they're like, I don't. What? I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna go talk to that person. I'm like, but you, that's why you're here. I don't want to have to do it. Like, who's gonna do it? And then we just see it. Yeah, you've been really good and it was beautiful. It wasn't pushy at all. It was just like we were reading the sign, eye contact, like, yeah.

Freya Graf:

And I was like, yeah, it was great. To be fair. Hang on. To be fair. You came over to the sign and looked at your facial expression, just said, whatever this is, I want to be a part of. And I was like, well, fucking come along and just see how it goes. That's so true. I was very excited reading this one.

Freya Graf:

Okay, amazing. So I've pretty much just been like, asking people a few questions. Like, for instance, like, do you remember your first ever sex party, play party experience? Or do you have a story? Oh, okay. All right, we'll start with you. Okay. Yes. Okay. So I went to the first play party I ever went to.

Freya Graf:

You had to go to a full one day mandatory consent workshop before you could attend the actual party, which I thought was amazing. And it was all like, they taught you about different forms of consent. And then also you would practice setting boundaries with people. And then there was like, you do like a short clothes on scene if you wanted to, with a little bit of rope and a chest harness for anyone who wanted to participate. So it was like a good, like, taste and step into the scene and what to expect. And I loved it then because everyone was on the same page and they would give out these little cards of like, questions to ask before you would engage with someone. And it was just very. I thought it was very thoughtful, very educational.

Freya Graf:

And the first party I went to, it was a kink party. And it was. I saw things I'd never seen before, and it was amazing. I saw. Okay, so I saw. I saw these two people in a blow up, like, kiddie pool. And then they had next to the kiddie pool on tables, like a bunch of different food items. And then you would ask them if you could smush the food onto their naked bodies.

Freya Graf:

So there was cake, there was whipped cream, there was all sorts of things. It was amazing. And then I saw a person, a naked person get blown up in like a human sized, like, flesh balloon. And then so he was standing and it was giant. And then people could touch him through the balloon with their consent. And then I did a spontaneous scene which was like spank tiggy, which was like, they cleared out some space. I had like three people participating. And basically we had like different, like, words to shout out, but they would run after me.

Freya Graf:

And then if they caught me, they got to spank me. And. Or unless someone said freeze or slow, then it would like, became really like, soft, sensual touch. And I had like A break zone that I could go to anyway. It was like. It was so spectacular. There were so many creative things there. It was an incredible entry into the scene.

Freya Graf:

And you just, like, kind of made up this game on the fly at your first ever party. It's very me. I'm such an exhibitionist. I was like, I want to play and I want to do something like fun. Wow. That's a pro move right there. You nailed that. You clocked that party.

Freya Graf:

Thank you very much. That is an amazing. They were amazing group of people. It was a really cool scene. Wow. In Melbourne. Yeah. They've since, like, rebranded and.

Freya Graf:

And I haven't. Yeah, I haven't attended one of their parties in a while, but this was like, maybe like five, six years ago. And it was. It was amazing. Yeah. Okay. Thank you. You need to trademark that game and facilitated at these events.

Freya Graf:

Oh, my gosh. I totally should. We truly could. Yeah. You could run those. Yeah. Maybe I will just make everyone else's experience of, like, their first sex party be like that. Yeah.

Freya Graf:

Yeah. Okay. So you have a story. Well, it's. It's going to be incredibly, like, bland after that. But it was here, actually. It was. It was at a Bison Virtue maybe like three months ago.

Freya Graf:

Yeah. At the. The. The one that I met you at. Oh, my gosh. Yeah. What was that one? We only met. We've only met twice.

Freya Graf:

Yeah. Tonight and at a previous party and with the two lovebirds who are over there. Yeah. Y. And I arrived with. So with those two lovebirds and then a couple of other friends. And we ended up having a really lovely, like, kind of initial kind of walk around here. And we ended up engaging in, like, in group six that we had, like, talked about beforehand, like, set intentions.

Freya Graf:

And I think that was something that I'd never experienced is like, the whole setting intentions before you go and do what you wanted to do. It's just everyone set their boundaries beforehand. And it was really. It was just really like. It was the most respectful, beautiful time I've ever had sexually. Because it was like there was a good five or six of us who were. Who had already discussed what we wanted from the night. It was really beautiful.

Freya Graf:

It was really beautiful. And it was here. And what were some examples of the things that you shared that you wanted to get out of it or people the intentions that were being said? Well, okay, for example, my intention was spanking. I really wanted to be spanked. And actually there's someone who I met here who I've then seen it, like, at. At Several sex parties after the. After the first one who I saw engaging in Group 6, and I was like. I was like, oh.

Freya Graf:

He invited me to join, and I said, I'm. I'm not quite ready for that. But he was like, what can I do for you? And I was like, that's beautiful, the phrase, like, what can I do for you? And I was like, whoa, you know, I really want to be spanked. And he was like, amazing. So we did some spanking. And I have since seen him at, like, the last few sex parties, and he. And we have engaged in the same, like, kind of like, it's become a tradition now, but, like, I know. Beautiful.

Freya Graf:

Hey, beautiful. So lovely. I'm like, travis, it's spanky day. I love that he's over there. I'm sure he's over. I've saw him just before. I'm gonna go see him later on. You get a spank date to attend? Absolutely.

Freya Graf:

I have a, like, fun little side story, if you want to know it. It's just. It's short, but I've been starting this movement at sex parties in Melbourne, but also this has also happened in San Francisco, where at some point, I will get people to do the Macarena with me in lingerie to whatever music. Music is playing. And I want this to spread as a phenomenon because I've done it at multiple events, and people always want to join in. Oh, yeah. And so I just want to say, if you're at. If anyone is listening to this, and if you're at a sex party at some point, please crack out.

Freya Graf:

Yeah. Macarena. Do it. Exactly. Are you gonna do it tonight? Yes, absolutely. I don't know when. Maybe a little bit later, but I'll come and grab you if you would like to join. I imagine that, like, you start in the middle of the dance floor, and it just ripples.

Freya Graf:

Y. Yes, exactly. And then at some point, I cue to go double time, and then if anyone is game, triple time. It's very fun. You are an adrenaline junkie. I am. So I would love to hear about your first ever play party experience. My first ever play party experience was a long time ago.

Freya Graf:

How long have you been in the scene? About four years. Years. And I explored it with a partner who was exploring it for the first time too. And I think that's one of the nicest ways to do it without any pressure. And I've got to say, the community that I've grown to know, that pressure has never been there. It's a fantastic experience. Yeah. And it's nice to bring people to their first times too.

Freya Graf:

Do you have any sort of stories from these parties or this lifestyle that you feel comfortable sharing that might be interesting or entertaining or insightful for people? I in my day job, there's a lot of talk about diversity and inclusivity and it's a lot of talk, but not a lot of walk. And I've got to say again that this community probably walks the walk better than I've ever seen anywhere. Everyone feels comfortable in these spaces, no matter gender, body shape, sexuality. Again, the inclusivity of people coming here, even for the first time will feel comfortable about themselves in ways they've never felt before. And that's very empowering. Incredible. What have you discovered about yourself through attending these sort of events? I have discovered a lot about myself. I discovered a lot about my personal power as a woman.

Freya Graf:

It's very empowering. The sex positive community and learning about consent gave me the capacity to say no as much as yes in my life and create boundaries and enforce those boundaries without feeling bad about myself. Epic. What a fantastic excitement. Is there anything else that you'd like to share? Maybe even something for like a beginner that would be interested or curious or. Yeah, anything. Anything else relevant that you feel like sharing? People feel guilty about pursuing pleasure almost just as much as they feel guilty about resting these days. And I think both of those things are such important parts of having a balanced life.

Freya Graf:

A person without pleasure in their life is quite boring and dull and no one wants to be that. Love that. Great message. Thank you. Excuse this quick interruption. I'm shamelessly seeking reviews and five star ratings for the potty because as I'm sure you've noticed by now, it's pretty fab. And the more people who get to hear it, the more people I can help with it. Reviews and ratings actually do make a big difference to this little independent podcaster, and it's really easy to just quickly show your support by taking that simple act of either leaving five stars for the show on Spotify, or even better, writing a written review and leaving five stars over on Apple Podcasts.

Freya Graf:

Or if you're a real overachiever, you can do them both. That would be mad. If you're writing a review though, just be sure to use G rated words because despite the fact that this is a podcast about sexuality, words like sex can be censored and your review won't make it through the gates. Lame. Anyway, I would personally recommend doing that right now while you remember to just to get on Top of it. And let me know you're with me on this journey. Thanks, gang. Enjoy the rest of the epi.

Freya Graf:

All right. Okay. It's really loud, so I just have to, like, shove it under your nose when you're talking, but I would love to hear about, I guess, how you got into this and, like, maybe your first ever play party experience. So this is our. Yeah, this is our first ever dance party type experience. We've been to. To clubs before and to Mingles, but never to a place on this. We got into it with doing a nerdy survey.

Freya Graf:

Nerdy. So mojo upgrade. Had to send it to each other. We both answered questions, and it was like, you know, what do you want to do? Have, you know, like, have sex with people watching? And like a yes, no, maybe. Yeah. Yeah. And then it sends your results to each other when it's a match. And we were like, oh, okay.

Freya Graf:

And you were like, oh, you want to other guys and you want to be watched. Yeah. And you want to go to a sex club. Yeah. And then it was like, yeah. First night, our list was empty. Yeah. We had to make a new one.

Freya Graf:

We did make a new one several times. Oh, my God. So you discovered that about each other through doing. Yes. No, maybe. And the resulting sense. Are you nervous that. Yes.

Freya Graf:

You weren't gonna match up up in that direction? And we'd been together for a long time and married for a long time by then, like. Oh, yeah. Easily married. 18 years at the time. Yeah. Yeah. Together over well over 20. Yeah.

Freya Graf:

Well over 20. 25. Yeah. Oh, my God. Epic. And then. So how was it when you first started dabbling? The first night we went to between friends, and it took a lot to get as well. To get me in the door, I was just like, let's get in, let's go.

Freya Graf:

And we went there, and it was so welcoming and friendly, and the people that were there were great, and we felt so safe and met a couple, and next thing, I'm dragging you up the stairs and following me, you the first guy that touched you on the ass. Yeah. Yeah. And how did. How did. How did you go with that? Oh, look, awesome. Yeah. Yeah.

Freya Graf:

That was amazing. Yeah. Yeah, it was. It was so much fun. And we're like, oh, yeah, okay. And you should ask these guys about first times. Yeah, I will, I will. Thank you for sharing, by the way.

Freya Graf:

We may not have been part of it. You were definitely part of it. Oh, I know. We. We joke that our first time was what we call the accidental orgy. We thought we Were going back just with these two, and we ended up going back with these two plus those two. So six in the bed. Initiation by fire.

Freya Graf:

It was absolutely. It was very overwhelming for a first time. Yeah. I'm sorry, Was that good? It was good. Okay. Yeah. Well, we went back, so. Yeah.

Freya Graf:

Yeah. But then, I mean, you could have gone back and then been like, oh, I've bitten off more than I can chew. I think we did feel like that at the start. And like, these guys know, like, I got out into the foyer of the hotel and just burst into tears because I was just overwhelmed. But then, you know, and I'm saying, all right, I'm done. This was a mistake. We don't want to do anymore. The next day I was messaging them, being like, hey, had a great time.

Freya Graf:

When can we do it again? Because I was so ready to go again back out. Yeah, it wasn't long. No, it wasn't. It wasn't long. So, yeah, it's been an interesting adventure. Adventure for us. Yeah. We were both married to other people and in shit relationships where neither of us were getting what we needed sexually out of it.

Freya Graf:

And so when we got together, we basically were like, we're not doing that again. We're gonna say what we want and go for what we want. And, yeah, this is us doing that. Pretty good at getting what you want. That is so epic. Do you have anything to add, maybe, about your first experience? Oh, absolutely. Like, you're literally going cross eyed trying to keep an eye on who you're with and who they're with, you know, and when you've got six in one, bad guys don't know where to look. So it's just something you got to be mindful of and you push through it.

Freya Graf:

But you were pushing through it. That hasn't stopped us since. So, you know, time after time, it does ease the nerves each time. But, yeah, definitely. Getting your kid off, you know, on the middle of Flinders Street Station and walking in the foot club for the first time was a bit daunting. This was one of our first events. Yeah, yeah. Was that platform 21 1? Platform 1? Yeah.

Freya Graf:

Platform 1, yeah. And you just walked in off the street and you were told, here's a garbage bag. Take your clothes off in the doorway. Not even in the club yet. Rip it off, get on with it. We got a line to get through. All right, get in there. So unceremonious.

Freya Graf:

Let's just absolutely raw dog it. Absolutely. Wow. Okay. And like, do any of you have, like, a particular fantasy or kink or fetish that you've been able to explore through these scenes, other than, I guess, swinging, would you call it? I think we're all building the list, aren't we? Yeah. What's on the list? I'll go. I'll go. We share our list, don't we? Yes.

Freya Graf:

So we. We have sent them to each other. And all four of you, or all six of you? Four of us. Those guys know ours. Okay. We're just going to show them so we can tick each other's. Stick things off together. Yeah.

Freya Graf:

And you've made one that. Now that I have to do. I have a personal bucket list for Pebbles. I've approved everything that's on it, but he can just call on anytime and say, you need to do this thing. So it's like a bit of a. His kink list. Yeah. Yeah.

Freya Graf:

And, like, do you feel comfortable sharing some of the things on there? I'm gonna share all of it. Where's my. There was. There's things like. Like, go on a solo date with a girl. Take home a solo. A guy or girl on your own. Do you want me.

Freya Graf:

Do you want me to go do it? All right. Have a guy come on you on your tits. Have a guy come on your face. We might come in public. Have your remote control toy at work cam. So we like to do a little bit of Internet camming. We like to do a lot of Internet camming. So I want Pebbles to cam online without me.

Freya Graf:

That's about it. Oh, you took one off yesterday. Oh, yeah. I just had to wear a plug at work all day. All day. Butt plug. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Amazing.

Freya Graf:

Yeah. What about you guys? Bucket list, I suppose, like, we've each had a couple of things that we've added to the list. Yeah. As time goes on, like, you find that you're sort of getting more and more intrigued with certain things, and you speak to people in the lifestyle where they've been, you know, one year, two year, five, ten years further down the line, and you sort of go, okay, that's. That's intriguing. And then a lot more people have ticked things off and done things and explained to you, like, how certain things work and what they find appealing. And I never thought about it that way. But, you know, we've only been in this scene 12 months, and we both appreciate seeing someone with another partner or another couple, things like that, you know, and that sort of amalgamation of it.

Freya Graf:

And, yeah, conversion is a big thing for us. So a lot of things on our list are, like, I'd Love to see him with another woman and be able to just watch. I'd love for him and another man to have their way with me, be in the middle, that kind of thing. But yeah, there's a couple. A couple of things from their list that made it onto our list. A couple of things from their list that we'd already ticked off and vice versa, I think. So it's good sharing it. Yeah, it is.

Freya Graf:

And talking to people about what they've done and what they find attractive. Some of it you don't even think of and you're like, wow, yeah, that actually is a big, you know, turn on. Yeah. Turn on thing to do. Like you wouldn't know. Is there like anything that you can think of off the top of your head that, that, that kind of happened, but you hadn't thought about it or how it would be attractive to you, but someone else describing it made you go, oh, and then you've now gotten into it. Probably more like the. The public exhibitionism.

Freya Graf:

Like we've sort of never thought about. You do it, you know, in front of someone in a room, have another partner, another couple. And then when you're doing it on a stage in front of, you know, 20, 30 people, like, wow, I never knew that that had sort of really scratched an itch that you didn't even know that you had. Yeah. Probably the biggest one for me as well is. Yeah. Even just thinking back 12 months ago, getting you into our first club where we took our clothes off and you're in your lingerie, and I thought that was a big deal. And I think, you know, three weeks ago we were in a club doing it behind some prison bars while a whole bunch of people watched us.

Freya Graf:

I loved it. So fucking go, guys. You get it? That's so dope. Curious. Because, like, a lot of people that hear that I go to these parties are like, that are men or have penises are like, oh, I. I just don't think I could like, perform on cue or like, get it up. Like, how. How often do you kind of take some, like, performance enhancing? Every time.

Freya Graf:

Every time. Every time. Just in case, for peace of mind. Yeah, every time. Without fail. It's a mental thing. And yeah, I. We've.

Freya Graf:

We've taken a lot to get past it. Like, I've had a lot of times that I've probably. Ed is a real thing. Right. And lots of guys who I knew, like 100, I've probably gone, just gotten, you know, like, we go. Go and gone home and gone. Yeah. No, that wasn't great because they couldn't just couldn't get hard because there's so much going on.

Freya Graf:

So like it's, the more you talk about it, the more you find that other. Like there's so many guys in the lifestyle that are just taking it all the time. The second couple we ever played with just said like, this is what we do. Yeah, all right. Co just buy it online and away you go. Yeah, it's just too much going on around to. Oh like the amount of pressure. Like even.

Freya Graf:

Yeah, just even how much you could get in your head. And then it's only mental. It's only mental. Yeah, yeah. And like what about you need to take some Viagra and stuff just to make sure. Yeah, absolutely. And it, it is true that 90% of it's mental. Like, and it's day to day basis, whether you've got enough hydration, enough food, enough sleep, you know, work, life, it's all in your head.

Freya Graf:

And when you come to like things like this where you've got literally 200 people just watching you, you're sort of in the back of your mind. You gotta really let go of the. And just focus on what you got in front of you. Sometimes it just doesn't work. I think almost all the couples we've been with and it's not a huge list at the moment, but all of the men have said that they've taken in something and it is. So that's like he said, it's, it's a thing. Yeah. So awesome.

Freya Graf:

I mean, I think more people need to just be talking about it and acknowledging it and being honest and real about it because I feel like that's such a big mental block for so many people. Yeah, just, just normalizing it too. Like when it, when it happens, it's hard, it's hard to sort of get out of it. But you gotta treat it like it's not a big issue. Like we've had partners that, you know, have told us some of their other partners, as soon as it happens, doesn't happen, they just go into a hissy fit, throw things around, carry on and just storm off kind of thing. So that's the worst thing. Especially for the female who's trying her best to, you know, encourage it up. Yeah, it is hard.

Freya Graf:

But also with new partners too, like you don't know how to really work with your partner. It might take two or three times to really learn their bodies. Yeah, totally, totally, man. It really like, it breaks my heart to hear because I'm a sex coach And I work with lots of different clients and sometimes I work with men that have been. Had a real issue with like Ed. And it started from like this one time that it happened with a one night stand or a person and that person shames them or was like, oh, what are you good for then? Oh, what? Or they're like, oh, is it me? And because they put such a big, they've made such a big deal of it. It's created this fucking vicious cycle and it is. And now it's just spiraled out of control and they have a difficulty every time and it's like it's such a delicate thing and it, I hate hearing when people make it personal, make it a big deal.

Freya Graf:

Like that's the most damaging thing you could fucking do. So. Yeah. Okay. Thank you so much. Is there anything else you want to like share before you scoot on? I think just for people to know, not to judge it, give it a go. But also it's not for everyone and it's not a fix it for any broker relations relationships either. Don't, don't think it's that.

Freya Graf:

But get out there. And I think it's the best thing for communication in a relationship. Hundred percent. Yeah. It's like it requires amazing communication as a baseline and then it levels the fuck up out of it. Yeah. But you have to, you have to have that strong communication to begin with though. It's like what you said, it's not going to fix anything, but it's going to enhance what you've already got if it's the thing for you.

Freya Graf:

I've seen you guys do it. It was pretty cut. Yeah. Oh my God, I'm obsessed with you guys. Yeah. Go get it. I'm so proud of you all. Very cool, Very cool.

Freya Graf:

And listen to the epic. Oh my God. Kink educator and consent angel. This is dope. I interviewed a couple of consent angels a few months back when I first did an event. Yeah. And that was some of my favorite conversations. So.

Freya Graf:

Yeah, thank you for being here. Thank you for talking to us. Yeah, talk to me about that. I have been around the kink scene and sex positive spaces since adulthood. And yeah, have been our late career change where I get to host socials and my socials are geared towards people that appreciate sort of a little bit of a slower space, a little bit more sort of. Parties are great, but they're not how I meet people. I tend to sort of bond with people in spaces where you get to have sort of quieter, deeper conversations. And so yeah, I run a sharing circle and I run a social that allow people that are kinky and E M and queer to connect.

Freya Graf:

And I also teach a number of topics, consent negotiation also. So I'm running a workshop up in Sydney as part of Arsefest for training Consent angels and dungeon monitors. Cool. Oh my God. Okay, so firstly, dungeon monitor. So dungeon monitors is an older term. It comes out of spaces predominantly sort of the gay leatherman college culture. So where you have a kink dungeon.

Freya Graf:

And so they are the safety monitors or the people that manage those spaces. And that has evolved and there are still plenty of dungeons and dungeon monitors around. Consent angels is catching on much more in Australia. They exist in other parts of the world at festivals in Europe and in swinging spaces in the United States. And the role of a consent angel is really one of hosting the space and helping people to regulate, be in the space and yeah, come to an understanding of how to explore their sexuality in these spaces. I love that. So when you say that you run socials, are they kind of events where people in that scene can meet one another, have a bit of a circle, workshopping time and then have a bit of a play? No. So it's a non play space that I host.

Freya Graf:

I think that it's important to sort of separate meeting people and sort of getting to know them, sharing information about your experience and then having time for that to integrate and not rush into play. You know, there are people. Absolutely. And I think it comes with experience that when you come to these spaces you begin to build up a bit of a social scene. You see the same faces or you become more experienced about how to negotiate on the fly in these really hectic spaces. But most people don't start out there. Most people need to sort of understand a little bit more context and find a group to go to events with, find out which events are right for them. Like we're at obviously Boudoir, which is an amazing sensory overload and like lots of adventures that you can have here, but it's not representative of all of the events there.

Freya Graf:

I work other events, like temple events, where it's a co created space and it's much more a smaller number, very sort of led by the temple hosts and people can have deeper explorations or it's often a very good starting point for people. So yeah, it borrows from that tantric practice. But they're getting progressively more kink focused in Melbourne, which is amazing, I've noticed. Okay, so if you were to have like a message or a tip or some advice for like a beginner that was curious and wanted to dip their toe in. What would that mean? I think that you need to go through a phase of exploring and, like, set your goal as being sort of a. Like, I'm an information harvester and go into these spaces not expecting to have a million orgasms. Go into these spaces to actually find out what happens in them. And.

Freya Graf:

And you know, if it happens that you do go to your first event and you have and you do end up sort of having a million orgasms, great. You're one of those people. But that is one side of the bell curve. Most people don't get that experience. So, yeah, don't be disappointed in yourself if you have to try a few different spaces to find out what works for you. Like, the first time we had sex, we didn't know what was going to work for us, and we might have only had one type of sex. You're doing this at scale now, so. At scale? Yeah.

Freya Graf:

Like, I mean, there are people that come to these events and it's the first time that they've had, you know, sexual experiences with multiple partners on the same night. You don't have to do it that way way, but you can. But for most people, you know, you started out by progressively losing different V cards. You know, you had a pash, you went to third base, you maybe, like, had some oral, and then you, like, became like, had penetrative sex. Expect this to be an evolution of that process and to make and kind of go, okay, I don't have to do all of the things all at once. I don't have to be like, the person that I can see over there that is in the. In the middle of a gang bang. Yeah.

Freya Graf:

Baby steps. Yeah. And yeah. Yeah. One way of saying it is go slower than slow, then slower than that. Which is what you would tell a learner driver. Absolutely love that. One last thing I'm very curious about as a kink educator, if you don't mind sharing, like, what are your main kinks? I probably always default to some sort of sensation play.

Freya Graf:

Sensation play is probably the first kink where I was really switchy. I love the challenge of using pervertibles. So everyday objects, things like rulers, spoons, textures, I call it pervertible, because you can pervert these regular objects. Oh, my God. I've never heard that. That's amazing. Did not coin it, but, like, yes, yes, and yeah. So that's always a great go shoe because there is always, always something around that you can use in a way that wasn't originally intended to.

Freya Graf:

Whether that's just an ice cube out of your drink or whether you go and like buy some like links of chain from Bunnings and use that for temperature play and sensation play. So that's something. But yeah, I've loved to experiment and what I've always found is that my partner and exploring and negotiating with a partner tends to open up kinks that I didn't think that I had. What's a kink that you didn't think you had that was opened up by a partner that surprised you? Oh, proverbs, really. Humiliation, Humiliation and sort of degradation is psychologically a really tricky area for me. So it took a partner that could calibrate it and I had a lot of trust with before I could actually sort of go there and figure out what worked well for me. So because like a lot of people, you tend to see portrayals of these sorts of things where it's at the extreme end and so you don't sort of get to see what the baby steps are going up to it and whether that's sort of like just, okay, I'm going to turn the lights off and have you undress at this open window. Okay.

Freya Graf:

So. And now I'm gonna tell you what a dirty girl you are for doing that and how that I can see that the neighbor's watching even though they're not really. But yeah, finding gateways into different kinks. And one of the lovely things about having a community or having education opportunities is sort of finding out that information that there are different ways into this and you can tap into. Okay, I understand how that's sexy now. Yeah, absolutely. I think that's so important because more often than not we will see the more advanced or extreme end of the spectrum with some of these kinks and go, oh, no, that's not for me. Oh, I could never do that.

Freya Graf:

But yeah, the little baby steps that sort of slowly get you moving in that direction could be a real turn on or could be an entry point that, yeah, allows you to actually start exploring it in a safe way and then surprise yourself. Yeah. Dan Savage coined the term good giving in game. And there's a lot of academic research that's actually been done on that good giving in game. And game means being able to sort of like go, okay, I, I'm not necessarily into what you're into, but I'm game to sort of try it so that it's like about your pleasure for a little while. And I'm going to sort of Find a way to be good about doing that. Also, the good refers to having some sexual experience where you can competently come to being good at different expressions of sexuality. So yeah, like there's finding those baby steps and finding a way into it that can be interesting for you even though it's not your kink.

Freya Graf:

I love that. Thank you so much. This has been very insightful. Hey, me again. If you'd like to support the potty and you've already given it five stars on whatever platform you're listening on, I want to mention that you can buy some really dope merch from the website and get yourself a labia lounge tote tea togs. Yep, you heard that right. I even have labia lounge bathers or a cute fanny pack if that'd blow your head hair back. So if fashion isn't your passion though, you can donate to my buy me a coffee donation page, which is actually called Buy me a soy chai latte because I'll be the first to admit I'm a bit of a Melbourne cafe tosser like that.

Freya Graf:

And yes, that is my coffee order. You can do a once off donation or an ongoing membership and sponsor me for as little as three fat ones a month. And I also offer one on one coaching and online courses that'll help you level up your sex life and relationship with yourself and others in a really big way. So every bit helps because it ain't cheap to put out a sweet podcast into the world every week out of my own pocket. So I will be undyingly grateful if you support me and my biz financially in any of these ways. And if you like, I'll even give you a mental BJ with my mind from the lounge itself. Saucy. I'll pop the links in the show notes.

Freya Graf:

Thank you later. More than me. And just like stunning. Like so stunt Elena. Jesus Christ. Imagine if it was your sister. Yeah, that's what I thought was gonna happen. I thought it was like she was like very.

Freya Graf:

She. She had like long red hair, like both Caucasian. What were they doing? They're just walking past me and I was like, oh my God, what a compliment. You should tell them. Weren't you just saying it was happening so quickly? I was watching the mermaid getting tied up and then she was like, like struggling. She was like. And like wag. Like wagging, wagging her tail.

Freya Graf:

And I was like, I've never seen this before, but this is doing something to me right now. It's only recently have have I seen Shabari done. Oh, wow. Like, no. Where they're like. There's like this, like, kind of rebellion from the bunny. Oh. Where they're like, yeah, tie me up.

Freya Graf:

And I'm like, I thought that was not, like, it's more of a submission thing. Yeah. Rather than, like, a power from the submissive person. Like, from the person being tied up. As in it normally is that or that's what you're seeing when they were like, I was asking. Oh, yeah, sorry. Yeah, yeah, yeah. She was, like, completely submissive and then, like, struggling.

Freya Graf:

Struggling. But she looked like she was enjoying it. Yeah. I love it when they. It's like, a bit aversive or something. And it's like, even just that, like, my favorite burlesque performances are when it's not just purely sexy, it's, like, hilarious and, like, skanky and, like, filthy in, like, funny ways. And, like, they just do, like, a really good job of, like. Yeah.

Freya Graf:

They bring humor into it in this really fucking iconic way that, like, makes me completely riveted. Because if it's just performative sexuality, I'm bored. I don't like it. So before I could see tell that she was, like, almost about to laugh. And there's like, there's some, like. I think if it's too serious, it kind of steers away from intimacy and authenticity. Yeah, yeah. When it's too performative, it's going to be too serious.

Freya Graf:

Yeah. I feel. Yeah, yeah. So I love that. It also gives me an opportunity to hone in on, like, what turns me on. Yeah, exactly. So when we're in that room, watching that, like, the piggies and stuff. Yeah.

Freya Graf:

All I could think about was, like, how badly I wanted to, like, spank someone. It was like, I'd love to be like. Like, I would just love to just, like, have someone strapped up and just spank, you know? Like, that's all I could think about in there. And I was like, yeah, okay. All right. This is what I like. True. You're.

Freya Graf:

You're very, like, malleable in, like, a way. Like, it's like, see things and if it looks like. I don't know. I feel like. I think I adapt to something that activates, like. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Cuz, like, I. I love being a very submissive person in the bedroom, but I also love being, like, a very dominant person.

Freya Graf:

But it's not what I think about when in my everyday life, everyday sex life isn't like, who's the dong? Who's the. So it's more of, like, a union. It's like a connective experience. Right. But like, branching out, environments like this. I'm like. I love, like, role playing stuff. I don't.

Freya Graf:

I wouldn't gravitate towards, like, fictional role play where it's like, who's the queen? Who's the king? Who's the. Who's the altar boy? Who's the priest? Like, you know, but it's too performative. Like, I said that. Yeah. That's sick. I wish I had. Yeah, that's it. And, like, I feel, like, very adaptable and you can find something to enjoy in such a variety of things, whereas I feel, like, way more, like, narrow in what I can get into.

Freya Graf:

So none of, like, nothing in there? Nothing. No. No way. No way. That's so fine, though. It's pretty boring. But you're not boring. It's just that, like, anyways, it's not for you.

Freya Graf:

Yeah, but I wish more things were for me. And wouldn't that be exciting there for you? Like, you might go to, like. I'm just gonna. I'm gonna go with a random town. Go on. You might love that. You go to, like, Brazil for, like, three weeks and love in the jungle. And you're like, this is my finish.

Freya Graf:

I'm in nature. I'm in the jungle. I'm an ecosexual. Yeah. I'm an egosexual. Like, you're not a tree, but you're. You're a person. And you're like.

Freya Graf:

And your feet are in mud and, like, the mud's going under your toenails. You need to go to Brazil for that. Like, you can find that out pretty quick around. You go to, like, Mount Macedon. Yeah, I just prefer a comfy bed, you know? I mean, it sounds like effort outdoors. Yeah, it's uncomfortable. It's nice if you've got, like, nice grass and a picnic rug or something. Not if I.

Freya Graf:

No, I love that, but I don't want to be, like, feeling, like, rough bark on my back while I'm having to have standup sex. That sounds so not. I can't be bothered with that. You can put down, like, a nice day camp bed. But I love having sex. That's what I do. I'm not going to park. What am I.

Freya Graf:

Hang on, hang on. I think you're the essence. Like, the outdoorness is how spontaneous it is. Right. Like, it's like, you're not gonna bring a mattress with you as you're going for the hike and going, oh, here's the spot. Now let's slow down and let's do this and let's have sex. I need to have, like, glam jungle sex. You're walking along and then you're just going, hey, now's the time.

Freya Graf:

Yeah. See, I don't. But that's it. He said it. Spontaneous sex in nature is, like, how it needs to happen. Happen. You can't just plan it. But that's where I run up.

Freya Graf:

That's where I run up against the, like, the. I'm torn between, like, loving being in nature and spontaneous. Yay. Yay. And also, like, not having, like, soft surfaces and, you know, feeling freshly showered or, like, if I'm camping, like, I don't feel like having sex that much. Just, like. I don't know. I'm not that, like, rough and ready.

Freya Graf:

I'm, like, high, mate, and I need to just, like, things need to be set. They need to be ready. I can be spontaneous, but they're just. I'm. It's comfort. It's, like, textures. And comfort is my absolute. If I'm distracted by sticks getting in my back or, like, I can do it.

Freya Graf:

And I've had good, enjoyable outdoor sex, but, like, I would prefer. Yeah, like, a mattress at least, or like, a picnic rug on some, like, grass. I like a lawn. A good lawn. Down. I'm so down. As long as I'm not going to braid my knees or, like, be too cold, I'm pretty happy. But I need.

Freya Graf:

My body needs to be comfortable. Yeah. I think maybe, like, what you said before is probably the reason why none of this turns you on. And a lot of it doesn't look very comfortable. You comfort queen. Yeah, Like, I can't get around, like, latex and leather and the strappy. Like, I don't own lingerie. I can't with anything that's not, like, really comfortable.

Freya Graf:

Yeah. So that's. And that's almost your kink then, right? Like, you. Yeah. Sex and hoodies and, like, you know, million pillows out there and, like, make a thing out of comfort. Like, comfort is your fetish. Yeah. So, like, expand on that.

Freya Graf:

Okay. And, like, oh. I, like, get the into it and just be like, I'm. I need comfort. Like, I mean, I do, but I could go further. I feel like I do. I definitely curate. Like, I'm.

Freya Graf:

I'm not having sex if I'm not, like, pretty comfortable. And there's, like, nice music, nice lighting. I'm warm enough. I'm on a comfy bed or something. Like, maybe a couch maybe. I don't know, like, not your couch. Because that's fine. No, that thing.

Freya Graf:

When's. When. When's the last good sex you had? That wasn't that. Are you guys doing a podcast right now? We were going. I know you're. Are you recording right now? Yeah. Yeah. But I don't think the audio is going to be usable.

Freya Graf:

It's so, like. Because this is just recording everything and it's too. Yeah, we can. I guess that's part. I would have to be holding it quite close to you when you talk, and I didn't want to shove it in your face. I mean, do it. Do it as we're talking. Okay, I'll try.

Freya Graf:

We just got to huddle. Okay. Anyway, when's the last time I had good sex that I wasn't in a comfortable bed? Well, on the beach, but that's, you know, it's pretty comfortable. Sound is nice. If I've got a. If I've got a. Yeah, but compared to. I've got like a.

Freya Graf:

Compared to your bed, it's not comfortable. You're on earth. Yeah. But it's definitely not much difference between. It's sand beach sex is closer to jungle and forest and grassland sex than it is bed sex. Yeah. But you can be clean. And then you can also just jump in the ocean whenever you need to rinse off.

Freya Graf:

And, like, it's usually warm if you're in the sun and the sun's on your skin and that's nice. And like, sand is soft, so you're not gonna, like, graze your knees. And as long as I've got, like, a towel, it sounds like textures. You think? Yeah. Sensory. All you. All the things you were mentioning, like bark on your back, sun on your skin, water. You point out a lot of sensory features.

Freya Graf:

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Contribute to your experience. So those are very important to put on the forefront. I do. Yeah. What you enjoy. Yeah. I think it's really important that you can't tell you what to do, but maybe refraining from focusing on what you should be doing in terms of expanding on your sexuality and sexual experiences and encounters and actually focusing more on what you do enjoy and expand planning on that.

Freya Graf:

Yeah, I guess so. I'm also still pretty content with, like, how I. How I am sexually. I don't like. It would be fun and more exciting and that would be cool to have to be. Yeah, but so it's not a need, it's a curiosity. Yeah, I guess so. Yeah.

Freya Graf:

And also because I just talk to so many people about sex and I have so many conversations about all the different kinds of sex everyone's having and what everyone's into. I'm like, that sounds fun. I wish I was into that, but I'm just not. And that's when I'm like, now I've got fomo. Yeah, I wish I could just be more like. But how do you know if they are actually enjoying sex on the level that you are? I ask myself that question about everything. They might not know anything else other than what they're experiencing that they find adventurous and fun. And that could be much lower on a much lower bar, on a stimuli level to what you.

Freya Graf:

You're experiencing in comfort with these sensory pleasures that you are prioritizing when you're experiencing sex. Maybe, I don't know. So maybe you're not missing out. Maybe they're missing out on what you're experiencing. Maybe, maybe. I don't know. I talk, yeah, I talk to people that are having amazing sex and I talk to a lot of people having terrible sex. Terrible sex.

Freya Graf:

And so I'm. I'm right in the middle. I think I'm not having any sex at the moment. So that's my first problem. Why don't you bring. Why don't you bring. Well, guess where we are. Wait, bring what to the jungle? Bring the jungle to the bed.

Freya Graf:

I would do that cuz I prefer a bed. Like if I'm at someone's house and they want to have sex and we're on the couch, I'd be like, this party. Yeah, there's too many pillow goes. Like, that's. Where's the tambar? Where do you like to have sex? Are you. What's your take on all of this? I'm just stoked when I'm having sex, to be honest. Like, there's no, I wouldn't say I have, yeah, like a strong desire for one or the other, but I would be like, there was a time where I was like all into nature. Like, nature was just did it for me.

Freya Graf:

And that's because I was like, yeah, I was so relaxed, so calm. It was about the hike. There was spontane spontaneity about it. And like you, you'd both kind of know. You'd just be like walking along and then there'd be like either a look or a touch. And you're like, all right, well, we're on. It's happening. O.

Freya Graf:

And then would you stand up or lie down or find some moss? Like, all of the above. All of the above. Like, yeah, you. You get to experiment with that, I think, which is Nice. And I think if there's, I want to say, enough passion, it doesn't really kind of matter. I think that's where I'm not. This is going to sound so weird, but I just. I'm not, like, a super passionate person in the bedroom.

Freya Graf:

Like, I have my own version of that. But, like, I'm taken out of the moment way more easily by, like, being too cold or, like, a stick out my bum or something. Then, like, six. Someone who's just so in the fiery passion. Like I was describing to you the other day, like, I feel like my sexual energy is very watery and, like, mellow, and it can come to a boil, but it's still like, I'm not just, like, throwing clothes off in reckless abandon, just wanting to get on the D as soon as possible because I'm so passionate. Like, that's not at all my experience. So I think when I'm in nature, like, cool, cool, cool, until my body's not comfortable anymore, and then I'm, like, distracted by that, and then I want to make that feel better because it's taking away from the pleasure. I'm not like, such a hornbag that's so in the passion that I can just ignore everything else.

Freya Graf:

Do you know what I mean? This might be a tough question. Might not be, have you had truly great sex? Yeah. Yeah. Fucking up. What did that entail? But that entails. For me, that entails incredibly deep love and intimacy and trust and feeling like this is my person. And so it's pretty fucking hard to have that amazing sex when, like, you just don't have a person at the time and you haven't built that, like, trust and connection and intimacy over a period of time? Like, for me, the sex gets better and better the longer I'm with someone. So does there have to be some form of, like, commitment or, like.

Freya Graf:

Like some form of deep formation of, like, connection with the person? Or do they have to actually be in, like, a union? Like a. No, it can, I guess. Yeah, I know what you mean. Like an established dynamic or something with you, it's not going to change. Or, like, that definitely helps. I can definitely have great sex anyway if there's. Even if it's like, more of a new thing or, you know, not a, like, committed relationship. But it's.

Freya Graf:

It doesn't hold a candle to, like, what it can be. If I am in a committed relationship and I'm like, there's a level of, like, we're in this, you know, I think that's where I'm at these days and like because it's so about like trust and safety. Like you. I can have that with people other than a partner. But like it's not going to be on the same level as like I think the hottest sex ever would be like baby making sex with someone. I love creating a family together. Like I'm sort of going off that idea nowadays. But like that's been my like sexual blueprint is just like cool.

Freya Graf:

Like it's like on a biological level almost just. I just like. Yeah. I don't know. The thought of like being with this person and getting to continue deepening indefinitely and growing and like building on our like connection and exploring together over time. The more trust, the more love, the more intimacy that grows. Like that's, that's the best. Yeah, totally get that.

Freya Graf:

There's so much in there. There is. There's so much. There is so. You just revealed so many layers of yourself through that. I mean I'm open about that. That's why I don't have. Look, I don't have casual sex.

Freya Graf:

I don't do one night stands. I don't. I haven't had sex in like nearly a year because I just haven't felt like having sex with anyone because it's actually like not going to be good for me unless there's at least some like. Yeah. Like connection and it's ongoing, you know, like what do you think this like, like desire for that level of intimacy or connection. Where does that come from, you reckon like in connection in relation to sex? That's a very weighted question. How do you answer that? Is that too, too. No, not at all.

Freya Graf:

We're being recorded right now. Yeah, but it's after. She's got agency here. It's like if you ask me that I would be. It would take me a little while to answer. Well, I've forgotten the question. Well, you can answer it after, right? Yeah, you can go next. I forgot the question.

Freya Graf:

I have. Fuck. I have. Where do you feel like this or the need for the. Yeah, like. Or the desire for intimacy. Deep intimacy and deep connection and like that's what makes good sex. Like where do you think that comes from? I think that's like actually kind of just me and my sort of sexual blueprint and the stage of life I'm at with where I'm really ready to like have a partner and find my person.

Freya Graf:

And I, you know, I've experienced. Well, I had that or I thought that's what that was. It ended. But like in the time that that all went down. I was like, this is peak. Like, this is. This is what I've wanted for so long. And I'm experiencing, like, more attraction and love and, like, passion and, you know, all the things like the night have before because I have that safety.

Freya Graf:

And I think it's because, like, you know, also I haven't really ever had, like, an emotional home or, like, a very stable physical home either. So I'm always seeking, like, belonging and connection and community and like, someone, you know, choosing me and me choosing them and like, this sort of feeling of someone just having my back. Like, the amount of safety that that allows me to feel will just open up my sexuality. So, like, trust. Yeah, it's trust. It's like, it's something I've been craving my whole life and I've never really had. There's never been, like, an unconditional loving connection where I'm like, this person's got me no matter what. And I've just been seeking that.

Freya Graf:

And, like, so now my sort of sexuality is kind of tied up in, like, I can still enjoy sex. Sex anyway. And I've definitely had some really beautiful, like, friends with benefits situations where we're friends for such a long time and it's. We go in and out of being sexual and we've got so much love for each other as a foundation that it's like, cool. I can open there, but it's still not as fucking good as being like, I'm gonna spend the rest of my life with this person. And, like, I just want to have their babies, you know. Home. Yeah, home.

Freya Graf:

Feeling of home. Yeah, is like. Yeah, is like refined, like, boiled down, simmered down to, like. One word is like. Home in an experience is what you're seeking. And the reason it's so strong, that urge is because, like, I love the whole idea of, like. It confronts me a lot and it challenges me a lot. But, like, relationship anarchy and the thought of, like, not everyone having one primary person never, just never feeling like that person's your person forever, but having other friendships on a similar tier and like, different sexual relationships where you're actually getting that sense of home and belonging and commitment from, like, different sources, like, that would be the ideal, but we don't have that in the way that the word structured.

Freya Graf:

That's pretty rare. And I don't like friends. You can have this beautiful thing, but, like, at the end of the day, they're probably going to get point, a partner and they're gonna have kids and couple up and fuck off or they're gonna move or like whatever. They're not your life partner. Like if I could have like a friend that was a life partner. Sick. I probably wouldn't feel the need as much to have like a partner partner. But that's not really how people do things.

Freya Graf:

And so yeah, I just like the idea of having like a ride or die that I get to have sex with forever. I feel like you couldn't have answered his question any better. That's the one of the most beautiful answers I think I've heard. That's so like. Hey, it's like. Yeah, that was really lovely to hear. Oh, thank you. And I think for me it's like someone who's.

Freya Graf:

I've got like this almost disbelief in monogamy. Yeah. That there's like this, your life partner, soulmate. And this is the person that was put on this earth for you. And it's actually really lovely to hear the op. The polar opposite side of that, which is like enough. But this belief that there's this person there for me and my body is waiting for that and my sexuality is like, like that's where all my life was. Wow.

Freya Graf:

I don't know if I believe that that person. I. There's not one person firstly, like at all. But I, I've kind of lost belief that that person exists. Cuz I thought I'd found it and then. Yeah, it's like still very scarring that I lost that and that's not. Yeah. So I've kind of had my belief like shook a fair bit.

Freya Graf:

But it almost just makes me want it even more, which is definitely kind of unhealthy and I'm aware of that. But I'm like, I can't be bothered doing the fucking self work to not feel the need for that. At least right now that's still what I, I want. And like I would love to be proven right. I've been proven wrong a lot. But like I think it exists and I hope I can just like create that for myself. You know, there's got to be someone else that feels similarly to me that's also really hot and dope and smart and funny and single and my age and in Melbourne. They definitely.

Freya Graf:

Yeah, I don't know, might be here tonight. And around the corner, corner, behind the curtain we have. How would you guys answer? Well, I guess you don't have the same. I don't know. What do you, what do you feel about that? How would you answer that question? I would say that I am a very. I'VE learned from a young age. I've learned to be a very adaptable person sexually and intimately. Doesn't necessarily mean that I enjoy on a fulfilling level every sexual encounter that I experience.

Freya Graf:

But I would also say that my have sex as if I really love the person because I'm not necessarily focusing on creating a loving, monogamous relationship or anything like that. I'm not a monogamous person, but I also don't like one night stands. And I think there is this like subconscious motive to be very selective and fussy with who I do have a one night stand with so that there is some continuation from there and some exploring. I am very adventurous and I don't feel like one night stands are adventurous or explorative for me. When I say adventures and explorative, like I mentioned earlier, intimacy for me doesn't begin in the bedroom. It begins like way before. And there are so many things that add on to me being and feeling aroused and arousal for me can expand to a level where I can have multiple orgasms in a night with somebody and there needs to be that safety and trust there. And when that's there, I can really tap into this wilderness beast inside of me that is constantly craving to, you know, come out of its cage.

Freya Graf:

And I don't think that I can experience that in like group sex and threesomes. Like I'm, I'm, I, I definitely enjoy them circumstantially, but like, like it's more of a playful activity. Yeah. And, and also like essential experience. And like if it's something new to me because I'm quite a curious person, I'm like, yeah, like it, that's, let's do it. Like if I feel like the situation feels safe and no one's gonna get hurt, I'm not gonna get hurt. Everyone's gonna take, take something really positive away from this experience and it, let's do it. But I have had too many toxic experiences in my life that have taught me to become a lot more vigilant and really quite apt at like reading situations with new people to a point where I kind of wait for something that I'm still trying to figure out what it is, but some kind of indication that it is going to be a healthy, safe, sexy experience for me where I'm going to either learn something or experience something that could grow.

Freya Graf:

I don't enjoy these like stagnant sexual experiences, but I, I, I crave like ultimate, like ultimate energetic, I guess, like that very strong emotional connection. Very strong Sexual connection where I can stay present and last all night. I, I really, I have such a good strong staying power and as soon as I feel like that person is like trying to get to the finish line or, you know, like there's this like rush, then I'm turned off. I want to like just, just go where, Wherever, wherever it leads us and. Great, great answer. The one night stands feel quite pointless to me. Yeah. Yeah.

Freya Graf:

And when I say I'm. I'm not monogamous doesn't mean that I don't want lovers in my life. I can't have more than like two or three. That's exhausting for me. I've been in poly relationships before. There's too much communication, too much fucking, like, it's just too much time. It's. It's exhausting.

Freya Graf:

I work six days a week. I, I don't have fucking time for one person, like one relationship. But someone that I have that really strong connection with to be like, to text with, to have sexy phone calls with while I'm at work. You know, be creative, role play, you know, like, like I'm all for it. But yeah, I think also had a lot of serious relationships and. Yeah. Sorry for going on a tangent. Love it.

Freya Graf:

Based on what you said before, I felt like that and I felt, I. I've experienced firsthand a few times that, that, that lifestyle isn't for me. Yeah, it is. It's not, it's make believe to me, but it's not make believe to you. That's your. Your reality. This is my reality and in my reality, sustainably, it's not. Yeah, it feels quite fictional right now.

Freya Graf:

Yeah. Anyway, I'll leave it at. I'll leave it at that. Good chat. Great chat. What's in there as well? I don't even know anymore. I forgot the question, but do you have anything you want to share while we're here? Well, I had a que. I, I had.

Freya Graf:

I. I'm actually nervous to ask this question. Go for it. Go for it. You're okay? Like, you obviously don't know what the question is. I don't know, but you're obviously keen. It's pretty edgy, but like, maybe it's not. Where, where does that sit? Cuz you two are obviously a relatively new connection.

Freya Graf:

Well, I think we're still in the stage of navigating intimacy and I'm an extremely patient person and I also have no expectations at all. I'm happy to go wherever she goes, but I enjoy whatever we do together and however we spend Our time together, because all of it is intimacy to me. That's so nice. I love it. He talks so good. We've been having good chat. I'll bet. I'm just figuring it out right now.

Freya Graf:

I'm a little bit drunk. I'm stoned as fuck. No, you're killing it. Are you killing it? Yeah, we are all killing this. I also, like, focus very much on balancing my needs with other people's and in my everyday life outside of sexual intimacy. And if I feel like there is, like, some kind of lopsided, I guess. All right, for example, if I felt like Freya was constantly focusing on her and not really focusing on my needs, then I would feel like there. There was this, like, really big imbalance.

Freya Graf:

So it has nothing to do with what she is willing to put forward and put on the table sexually. It's more about, like, the energy, the thoughtfulness and consideration and, like, intimacy outside of sex. Like, that's just like an action. It's just like a dance, really. If you don't feel like doing tango with me, then maybe we can go and rap in the corner together. I don't know. That was a really corny thing. I'm going to record some freestyles later.

Freya Graf:

Oh, my God. I mean, like, that. It's a very, like. It's a very weighted question. I. I don't. It's the only way I know how to answer it. Well, for me, what's going through my head is like.

Freya Graf:

And I think I said this to you. I'm like, because we haven't had sex, and I'm like, I'm. I know myself well enough to be, like, slightly cautious, because I know that because when I, like, trust someone enough and I like them enough to have sex with them and we're having the kind of sex that I like to have, I can definitely just, like, fall really hard for people. And I don't want to fall really hard for you because we have totally different relating styles and needs in the long term. And, like, ultimately I am wanting to, like, find my person and, like, do the thing. Maybe that's naive. Maybe it's never going to happen. But that's why I'm also so happy to have, like, side quests and just, like, learn and explore.

Freya Graf:

And I feel like we can have, like I said, like, a healing, explorative, loving time. And if it gets too much for me and I'm like, oh, like, I'm actually just gonna get too emotionally entangled and it's gonna be bad for me, in the long run, then I'll just, like, back the fuck up. I guess I'm protecting you from that because I don't want you to feel like, you know, you're. I guess, like, falling in love from a deep sexual connection that you can't see around based on your experiences that you've had already. Well, I think the tricky thing is, like, I need the emotional connection to kind of be there enough to have that kind of sex and therefore, emotions already wrapped up in it. So it's like, I just need to, like, tread course and, like, head in, like, with all that, like. Like an awareness of that, which is probably why, because, like, I'm not, like, letting myself let go. So then you don't feel safe to let go.

Freya Graf:

So we're just kind of, like, tiptoeing up to the water and then just, like, sussing. It's based on your sense of safety that I feel that way. Yeah, yeah, exactly. It's not me. It's like. It's literally based on, like. Yeah, yeah. Because you're very, like, attuned.

Freya Graf:

Yeah, yeah, no, totally. So that's so fine. You don't need to do anything. You don't need to do anything you don't want to do. I know, I know, I know, I know. Yeah. So that's where that's at. Yeah.

Freya Graf:

Thanks for exploring that. That's like, real time right there. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm all about that. I just hope that. I love these. Said anything confusing. No, no, no, no, no.

Freya Graf:

Okay. Yeah, no, don't worry, don't worry, don't worry. No, this is good. This is how. This is how I do things. This is where the party's happening. Yeah, just, like. I love this.

Freya Graf:

There's, like, everyone else is people inside having sex, and we're like, what about love, Intimacy? I. I keep, like. I'm sorry if I get distracted, but I keep looking at, like, you know, the way people are dressed and all these things. I'm like, they would make any. Anyone here would be a fantastic, fantastic episode. I know. And I was just thinking, you should interview a consent angel. I interviewed a couple last time.

Freya Graf:

They're legends. They're legends. So can someone explain to me what a consent angel? Hang on, hang on. I wanted to someone. They're like, are you an angel? And I was like, yes, I can be. No, wait. But I actually just. I want to, like.

Freya Graf:

I want to so that I can just, like, turn this off. I just want to hear your sister's story or anything else you want to share about what we've been talking about and then I can turn this off and we can just get back in there. Sure, sure. All right. Okay, so you bumped in, you found your sister. All right, so. Oh God. I was just in another space and I ran into some friends and having a really good conversation.

Freya Graf:

It was really friendly and awesome and I'm like, I finally feel like I'm really dropping into this space and there's maybe things I want to explore and blah, blah, blah. And I walk, start walking out towards the, the smokers area and I see my sister, her husband and two of their friends standing around and I'm like, I'm smiling because I'm like, this was inevitably going to happen. Let me walk up to them and just, just say like, just break the ice kind of thing. And yeah, she's sitting across and then just sort of like disappears and then end up having a conversation that runs away. Runs away. Okay, so you haven't actually had any words with her? So no words have been exchanged. Her friend, who I've met a couple times, comes up, gives me a hug, she's like, how's your night going? Like this, this and this, having this conversation. And my brother in law kind of jumps in and yeah, just, I'm actually feeling like pretty like angry right now because we were having this conversation and it just, I just felt like completely like talked over.

Freya Graf:

And yeah, it wasn't a, wasn't a respectful exchange. And I said to him, look, I can't, I don't feel like I can have this conversation with you right now because you're, I didn't say because you're drunk. But I'm like, I don't think now's the time. And he's like, oh, you're not really giving me anything, man. Like you really, you're really this up and like you're not, you're not being like the, the real support I need you to be right now. And I'm like, man, like, this is like, I just actually felt like attacked. Really? And I'm like, that's imposing lot of responsibility. Yeah, yeah.

Freya Graf:

And he's like, no, I can have this conversation now. And I'm like, I don't want to have this conversation now. So I'm walking away because of me, not because of you. And then he's like, just, just tell me we're all good. Just tell me we're all good. And I'm like, in what context? And he's like, like, this is okay. And I'm like, Like the fact that you're here. And I'm like, yeah, it's fine that you're here.

Freya Graf:

I told you that at the start. It's the first thing I said to you guys is like, I see you guys are here. I want you to have fun. This is okay. Like I'm, I'm fine with this. And the friend intervened and she's like, now's not the time. You'll have this conversation later. And then I just sort of like walked off.

Freya Graf:

Okay. So there's a lot, there's a lot in there. There's a lot to unpack. So they're definitely feeling weird about it. I'm feeling, I'm feeling actually angry after that exchange. But like that's completely overshadowed the fact that they're there. Like, I didn't have a fucking issue that they were there. Now it's like become a thing now.

Freya Graf:

Now it's become a thing. Yeah. But for con, for this context is needed. Last week we were, we tried to have a clearing, me and my brother in law. And it didn't happen just purely out of like his communication style. I don't know how else to say it, but like I was trying to speak, he would talk over me. I couldn't express how I was feeling, nor could I understand his actual feeling. And then it just became this like combative thing.

Freya Graf:

And I, we, we didn't end up clearing anything. So there's underlying tension, which I think is obviously why this has started to blow up into more of a thing. So do you feel, do you feel like his communication style, like within this context is fueled by a defensiveness? Like, what do you think is. Oh, it's like a dominance. It's like I'm going to keep speaking, I'm going to speak louder and every time you try and speak, I'll literally just interrupt you. Oh my God, I can't stand that. Yeah, yeah, that's really tricky. Yeah.

Freya Graf:

All right, my loves. That's a bit of a wrap. Quite an abrupt ending, but unfortunately don't have any more intel for you. I think that the whole brother sister tussle over the sex party situation didn't kind of end up with any sort of constructive resolution yet, unfortunately. So I can't really tie a proper bow on that or update you. But who knows, maybe in future episodes there'll be some updates and something to report on that front. But I hope you enjoyed this episode. And yeah, I mean, it's already been a freaking long one, so I'm going to end it there.

Freya Graf:

And that's it. Darling hearts. Thanks for stopping by the Labia Lounge. Your bum groove in the couch will be right where you left it, just waiting for you to sink back in for some more Double L action next time. If you'd be a dear and subscribe, share this, this episode or leave a review on iTunes. Then you can pat yourself on the snatch because that's a downright act of sex positive feminist activism and you'd be supporting my vision to educate, empower, demystify and destigmatise with this here podcast. I'm also always open to feedback, topic ideas that you'd love to hear, covered questions or guest suggestions. So feel free to get in touch via my website or over on on Insta.

Freya Graf:

You can also send me in TMI stories to be shared anonymously on the pod. My handle is freyagrafthelabia Lounge. If my account hasn't been deleted for being too sex positive, which is always a possibility with censorship. But just in case the chronic censorship finally does obliterate my social channels, I'd highly recommend going and joining my mailing list and snagging yourself some fun freebies for the trouble at www.freyagraf.com freebies. Anyway, later labial legends. See you next time.