Dating in The Wild with Human Love Quest
Freya Graf:
This program is brought to you by Pussy Magnets. Put a minge on your fridge with a pussy magnet.
Connor:
Welcome, welcome, my lovely lumps. Or should I say, lovely labs.
Speaker C:
I'm so thrilled to have you here.
Connor:
In the Labia Lounge. We're going to yarn about all things sexuality, womanhood, relationships, intimacy, holistic health and everything in between your legs. Ooh, can't help myself. Anyway, we're going to have vag loads of real chats with real people about real shit. So buckle up, you're about to receive the sex ed that you never had. And have a bloody good laugh while you're at it. Before we dive in, I'd like to respectfully acknowledge the traditional custodians of the land on which I'm recording this. The Wurundjeri people of the Kulin Nation.
Connor:
It's an absolute privilege to be living and creating dope podcast content in naam. And I pay respect to their elders, past, present and emerging. Now, if y' all are ready, let's flappin do this. Oh, my God, is there such thing as too many vagina jokes in the one intro? Whatever. It's my podcast. I'm leaving it in.
Speaker C:
Don't panic. You're not broken. Your sex education was a piece of shit. Get your flaps out and pull up a couch. It's a labia lounge.
Connor:
Hey, gang, just before we jump into this episode, I wanted to offer you an opportunity to access my new mini course for free before I start charging for it in future. It's for people with vulvas and it's quick to complete. It's all about demystifying the female body and pleasure anatomy and getting some basic fundamentals to understand your body better. It's called Pussy Pleasure Roadmap to bedroom bliss. You can grab it on the freebies page of my website or in the show notes. It's a great little free resource to.
Speaker C:
Kind of dip your toe in or.
Connor:
Act as a bit of a taster for my work. So if you've ever been curious about this sort of thing and you just don't know where to start, or you want a really quick, easy, accessible, non threatening way to get the ball rolling and start working on this stuff, this is a great place to start.
Speaker C:
Hey, labial ledgehammers, welcome back to the lounge. Today we're talking about dating in the wild, as the Gen Z ers are calling it, getting off the apps, finding the confidence to approach attractive strangers in person, or maybe even create your very own meet cute origin story. And I've got a Couple of dating and Love Die Hards, who literally created a hugely successful event around the concept of real life dating. I've got the co hosts of Human Lovequest, Connor and Xander. And to give you a little rundown if you haven't heard of it, Human Lovequest is a live on stage dating show presented by friends Xander Allen, Conor Gallagher and the Captain that brings the golden age of television dating shows into the future. The future being now. Today. Marketed as being the antithesis of dating apps, Human Lovequest uses a classic trope of three hopefuls vying for the attention of one solo contestant.
Speaker C:
It's all inclusive and anyone is encouraged to apply, regardless of how someone identifies their age group or what they're looking for out of an encounter. So stop staring at a screen and let Human Lovequest make your dream come true, that is. God, I love how cheesy this is. I'm just leaning into it. With the additions of special guests in the intermission between rounds of dating a segment called Ahoy There where they read out love notes submitted by secret admirers in the audience, you're guaranteed a night of quality entertainment as heartwarming as it is hilarious. Now they have zero tolerance policy against intolerant or antisocial behavior. And the expression of interest form that all contestants and hopefuls are required to fill out features a vetting process that will ensure every round will feature like minded individuals. So if you're sick of the dehumanisation and apathetic repetition of scrolling through dating apps on your couch, occasionally swiping right, and eventually having a stunted conversation of small talk before never meeting up with each other, then come on down to Human Lovequest, putting the human back into actual human interaction since 2021.
Speaker C:
Damn. Welcome you two. Sadly, the Captain can't be here today, but super stoked to be chatting with you today.
Freya Graf:
Oh, cheers. Thanks for having us, Freya.
Xander:
Yeah, thanks for having us on.
Speaker C:
So I guess like that was a pretty comprehensive rundown of one of the events, but I'd love for those people, listeners who haven't been to one, if you could kind of give us a, in a nutshell, a rundown of like how the actual event works in action. Like, you know, how does the date bit work? What about this love note thing that I mentioned? Yeah, give us, give us the spiel.
Freya Graf:
Well, I mean the basic. For each live show that we do, there are two different dating rounds and they both work identically in that there is a solo contestant on one side of the stage. There's a, you know, Opaque is the word I want to use, isn't it? That's the. You can't see through it. An opaque screen. Yes. Two different things we discovered. And on the other side of that screen there are three other contestants.
Freya Graf:
So they can't see each other, but they can hear each other, obviously. And it's a combination of just, you know, asking questions of each other, giving answers back, you know, kind of figuring out little things about each other, how each other tickets are. They all tick. Sorry. And they hear a little bit about each other before they come on the stage too. So it's. It's blind. Ish.
Freya Graf:
But it's mainly just about, you know, hearing about the people on stage and, and what kind of answers they have to give to the questions. And then the solo contestant eventually picks who they'd like to have a drink with out of the three contestants. And they get led to a slightly private location on the premises. And they got given a bottle of, you know, sparkling wine if they're alcohol drinkers. If they're not, they got, you know, alcohol free sparkling wine or just juice or whatever. And they just get a chance to speak to each other and see where that goes.
Speaker C:
Dope. I love that. And tell me about the Ahoy There segment because that's probably one of my favorite parts actually.
Xander:
Yeah, so the Ahoy There it's really simple. It's just for people in the audience that maybe one of the contestants on stage, they got a bit of a crush on or maybe they just see someone in the room. And a lot of the time it's people even writing to their partners. But basically people write down these love notes. They can be anonymous or they can leave their number or details, which we won't read those bits out. But yeah, they get put in a. In a barrel and in the middle of the show we read them out live on stage so everyone gets to hear them. And they're honestly probably one of the most fun bits about the night.
Xander:
Some people write some pretty racy stuff sometimes. I think there was once where we didn't read it out and it was just very obvious that it was a bit of a. We just assumed it was a very bogany hetero dude. And it went beyond thirsty and into like just creepy and offensive. So I think the only one that didn't make the cut. I wish we'd taken a photo so we could remember exactly what it wrote.
Freya Graf:
I'm just trying to think. I can't remember what it said either, but it was like it had the, the vibe of a really tasteless comment on an Instagram post. Like, it was. It was written like that. It was like, who? But you're here. We know who you are. Terrible.
Xander:
Very. Like your. Your racist uncle on Facebook who's a bit thirsty kind of vibes, like, had a real boomer humor flavor to it. Yeah.
Speaker C:
Oh, yeah. Well, my next question was going to be about, like, you know, and you just read so many of these, and if you're anything like me, like, memory would not, you know, latch on. But can you remember any, like, particular highlights from, like, the notes or, like, favorite things that you've. You've found on these notes?
Freya Graf:
Sometimes people use, you know, the roses are red, violets are blue type poetry. Other times, people have used acrostic poems, which is really good fun. And sometimes people use the opportunity to write a love note to just say nice things about people in the room. They're not even necessarily romantic. Like, the ones that I like the best, the people who write things saying, just letting you all know you're all beautiful and you're all enough and, you know, I think you're wonderful. It's like, oh, that's really nice. But then you get other ones where it's like, that person in the back corner with the red top, I want to take you home. And, like, blah, blah, blah.
Freya Graf:
Okay. Right, well, so it's the real. It's the whole gamut of human emotions.
Xander:
Yeah. I'm a big fan of when someone's clearly casting a wide net and they've just gone, like, to all the girls in the room, my name's John. Here's my number.
Freya Graf:
We never get a chance to hear about whether or not that's successful because, like, surely someone's gone, you know what? Maybe I'll give this John guy a crack. But we've never heard.
Speaker C:
Yeah, I. I wonder about that. Like, you know, when people leave their number and it's like, as someone. So you leave all the notes at the bar for people to sift through and grab if they think that the note is for them. And then they can get the details of the person that left the note. And I wonder, like, you know, in that situation how I would handle that, because you actually know nothing about this person. You have a phone number. You might text them and then be like, I mean, I would feel kind of uncomfortable meeting up with someone without seeing a bit more about them, whether it's some photos or knowing a bit more about them.
Speaker C:
And I suppose you can try to take that into your own hands. But, yeah, it's an interesting little pickle to navigate, I suppose. Like, I love the energy of. Yeah. People putting themselves out there and shooting their shot and then it being up to the other person to message them if they want to or not. But I'm so curious, like, how that actually goes down. Like, does anyone ever get in touch with you and say, we met at your event or one of the dates from the stage? Like, any success stories?
Xander:
We had someone tell us that they met their partner in the crowd and they'd been together for, I believe, a year.
Freya Graf:
Awesome.
Xander:
And, yeah, with the love notes things, occasionally we will do a show that's not on a Tuesday, and for that we like to put the love notes right at the end, and then people, as they're hanging around the venue can actually meet each other. But because generally it's a Tuesday, the second the show is over, a lot of people are just going straight.
Speaker C:
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Freya Graf:
It's a. It's a big school night for a lot of people.
Speaker C:
Yeah.
Freya Graf:
But we have heard, like, I've been out and about and had people who were on the show, like, months before come up to me and say, oh, yeah, I actually, I ended up dating that person for a few months. Or I dated that person once. I didn't like them. It's like, okay, cool. This is all interesting feedback. Um, but, yeah, the. The. The biggest, as Xander was just saying, the biggest success stories we've had are from people meeting each other in the audience, which is really nice, actually.
Freya Graf:
It's so cool because it is. It is a night out. And it is. I mean, it's not speed dating or anything like that. There's no element of that in the show, but it is a very social occasion and it's kind of a nice. I don't know, it's just a nice feeling in the room, which is something I'm quite proud of, actually. It's really nice.
Speaker C:
Well, cute story. I. I made a really beautiful friend shout out to Ned at one of your events, and it was. It was through, like, we swap numbers, and I just texted and was like, hey, I think actually you're probably a fair bit younger and because, you know, you don't know anything about the person, you just see them in the audience and then anyway, and he was very upfront, like his fresh out of a relationship, not looking for anything, and he's 28. And I was 34. And I was like, cool. Well, you know, great. I just thought I'd let you know that you're beautiful and I Loved your energy.
Speaker C:
And he was like, oh, my God, that's so sweet. And we had this beautiful interaction, and then we ended up becoming friends and going to the next human love quest together in the audience.
Freya Graf:
Lovely.
Speaker C:
And now we're mates. I know. So it's. It's very. Yeah, it's very wholesome and beautiful. And what I love about these events is, like, it really feels like something that people are desperately craving. And there's this, like, energy in the room that. I don't know, it feels like this kind of infectious, like, buzz that you can feel because we're all there to celebrate love.
Speaker C:
We're all there to embrace more real human connection. And I just feel like it's quite palpable in the room because, like, people are there on the same tip. They feel more open, more warm, more receptive or welcoming potentially, to strangers, speaking to them or approaching them, more ready to make a new friend or to connect. And this is such a rare vibe, I feel, like, where you can go to a social event and you can mingle with strangers with this sort of backdrop that's all about connection and dating and finding love, or just literal, like, platonic connection.
Freya Graf:
Well, I've got a question for you, actually, Freya, because we've never been to our own show, obviously, like, we're, you know, on stage the whole time. Does it feel to you as if, because there is such a focus on love and. And dating being the, you know, two of the main themes of the show, is there a feeling of, like, dare I say, kind of pressure in the audience to kind of get into that vibe? Or is it more of a friendly thing? Like, when you were approached, for example, by your friend Ned initially, how did that feel for you? Did it feel like, oh, if this was at a bar, I'd feel a bit strange about it, but because this is here at this show, it feels a bit more acceptable. Does that make sense?
Speaker C:
Totally. I approached him, but. And no one's. No one's, like, really approached me there. It's been more like cute little interactions that have been very friendly and warm, maybe with other, like, a couple there or whatever. I don't feel like there's. I mean, there might. They might feel like there's added pressure.
Speaker C:
For some, I generally feel like, you know, you're there with, like, you're on a table, you're with friends. It's just more like a cute vibe of, like, oh, we're all kind of, like, in cahoots to kind of, I don't know, generate more Connection and support this rather than, oh, we're on the prowl, we're on the lookout. Every interaction is a potential come on or whatever. I don't. I don't think it's got that energy. I think the way that you two frame it up and like, hold the space is. And the crowd that that draws is generally quite progressive, quite consent culture driven. Like, it's very safe, I feel, anyway.
Speaker C:
And. And yeah, I guess, like, it's kind of in the back of your mind for sure. Like, you're kind of, like, looking around like, oh, is there anyone I want, I might want to write a note to or like, you know, but it's all quite, like, clean and in good fun, it feels like to me.
Freya Graf:
Oh, great, good.
Speaker C:
So. And I think, like, yeah, I. I imagine, you know, folk are really hungry for it because the dating landscape has just changed so much in recent years. Like, with the apps becoming literally the main way that people meet, socializing has kind of become quite different, a different experience, like, since COVID And also with like, social media and just like, more tech, more working from home, more being online, Common watering holes or third spaces are a lot less prevalent, I think, now. And so I feel like there's this, like, general, like, social atrophy or like a lack of social skills plus increasing levels of anxiety. And this feels like it's really shifted the way people move out and about in the world and connect. And I feel like your event feels like, at least for me, like a really much needed antidote to this and to the kind of loneliness and the isolation that's becoming more and more embedded in, like, the modern way of life. So I'm curious, like, was this your intention from the start or, like, how did all this come about? Has it sort of just evolved? Because once you started running the events, you were like, o, people are craving this, you know.
Xander:
Well, I can only say for myself, but Connor and I had the idea of doing a dating show for years before we eventually did it. But for me, I was just going purely for an entertainment standpoint because I thought they were, you know, a funny, cheesy sort of thing. Thought if we just, you know, tried it out and updated it a tiny bit, it'd be a lot of fun. And for me, the angle was just on entertainment and getting laughs. And it was only after doing that first show because obviously we couldn't really rehearse anything. It's all, you know, it all relies on the guests so much. But after we did that first show and I saw that Some people that were really shy and they were a lot more introverted than other people on the stage when they opened up and were like, just so honest and really baring their soul. Like, it was just such a powerful moment.
Xander:
And it kind of completely changed how I saw the whole idea of doing the show. And it went from just getting laughs to like, no, there's some beautiful human moments of connection that we can show. And yeah, it's just sort of, for me, it has evolved in that way.
Freya Graf:
Yeah. It's interesting because I think, as Xander was just saying, we had the idea to do this ages before we actually did. And unless I'm maybe wrong on the timeline here, Xander, but I reckon, was it like three or four months before COVID that we were actually going to do it?
Xander:
I think so, yeah.
Freya Graf:
Yeah. And we had the plan to do it. And the first one we were going to do was because each of our monthly shows is at the Brunswick Ballroom on the Tuesday, last Tuesday of every month. But we were going to do it at a pub in Fitzroy that one of our best friends was managing at the time in a function space. And I think the first show we had planned was a week after lockdown started. So that obviously didn't happen. But yeah, I agree with Xander. I thought it was going to be a much more entertainment based thing and, you know, the kind of more heartwarming side of things would obviously come from the contestants.
Freya Graf:
But I didn't. How do I put this? I didn't feel comfortable trying to like mastermind a way to force that as an issue. I thought that had just come from the people being on stage. So the first few shows we did, it was mainly full of hospital people and friends of ours. And then I remember, I think it was the fifth or sixth show that we did that the guests were really nice and there was some like, you know, kind of bawdy moments here and there, but it was just people being vulnerable on stage. It just felt really good. And that was the first night that I remember standing with the Captain, who, for people who haven't seen the show before, the Captain stays behind the sound desk because he's in charge of all the lights and sound and everything else. And that's where he likes to be.
Freya Graf:
And I was standing with him before the show and we were looking around and the room was full. There were like 200 and something people there. And I just realized I didn't know anyone there. And he was, at that moment, he turned around and said, any of our friends here tonight? And What? No, I don't. Who are these people? This is weird. And from then on, it's like, yeah, now, you know, at the last show we did that you came to last week, Freya. I think in the crowd, we had one person that we knew, and that was Xander's beautiful wife, Dizzy. That was it.
Freya Graf:
And everyone else there was like, who are. This is nuts. But, yeah, that started pretty quickly, and then it did become much more of a, I think, an exercise for a lot of people to just get out there and try something different and feel like they have the support of a room full of people and, of course, the support of us to make it all happen. And, I don't know, it stopped being. You know, I want to be on stage and be really funny and stuff, and that kind of stopped happening. And now it's just people who want to get up on stage and just try something they've never done before. The amount of people who come on the show who have never seen the show before is pretty wild to me.
Speaker C:
Yeah.
Xander:
Yeah. Quite often we meet people that have. They've heard about the show. They don't even know anyone that's in it. Like, they're not even there to see their friends, and they've just come alone to watch this dating show, and it's. They're just like, I just need to get out of the house. You know, I'm really shy, so I've decided to come along. And hearing stories like that, it's really beautiful to know that we're putting on something that people can, you know, get enjoyment from in all those different ways.
Freya Graf:
Yeah, it's really nice.
Speaker C:
And that's, like. That's kind of what I was. Yeah. Trying to describe is, like, it does feel safe and welcoming and inviting, and it feels like there's the perfect balance of, like, dorky cheesiness and, like, wholesome, heartwarming stuff and vulnerability and people just, like, putting themselves on the line and doing something quite scary and vulnerable and the audience really getting around them, and everyone just being in this kind of bubble of, like, celebration of all of that. And there's something quite healing and soothing about that. And it seems like a kind of happy side effect of this initial idea of just entertainment and, like, humor that, you guys, you know, begun, and then it's evolved into this thing that, like, the people are really wanting. Like, that it's packed. Every time it's packed.
Speaker C:
And I'm like, well, these guys have, like, hit upon a very dope formula, and it fucking works. And, like, now Yeah, I mean, I. I think it's just so. It's because it's still so entertaining. Like, it's. You still get the funny humor. You know, you guys are a blast on stage. And.
Speaker C:
And then there's also the more like, real vulnerable authenticity stuff, which we're all just dying for more of, really. So. Yeah, that's what.
Freya Graf:
I don't think. I don't think that would have happened unless Covid had happened, though, because we did our first show after the first. It was a year, A year to the day, pretty much that we wanted to do the first ever show. So it's basically a whole year of lockdown. And of course, through that period of time, everything changed, not just in terms of dating, but in terms of how you talk to someone at a cafe or you go and buy groceries and say hello to someone walking down the street to you. There was this. Everything felt a bit dicier.
Speaker C:
Yeah.
Freya Graf:
And, yeah, I think that's one of the main reasons, as Xander was saying before, one of the main reasons that it turned from, well, this will be really fun. This will be great to. I think this is. Don't want to, like, sound too audacious about this, but it's kind of a bit necessary. It's needed, like, yeah, yeah, yeah, like a little bit. And we realized that pretty quickly. But, yeah, as I said before, I don't think the focus would have been on that as quickly if we hadn't just been stuck inside for a year.
Speaker C:
Yeah, totally, totally agree.
Freya Graf:
That really worked for us. So, yeah, thanks.
Speaker C:
And now look at you.
Xander:
We'll just keep this going. It's going to be great.
Freya Graf:
Yeah, amazing.
Speaker C:
So good. So good. Well, yeah, like, people are dying for connection. I get asked all the time, just like, you know, through this podcast and the listeners of this podcast, like, hey, could you do some sort of matchmaking service? Could you? You know, because I've done episodes on. On dating and all this sort of stuff, and everyone's struggling with it. Everyone's feeling a lot of dating fatigue and burnout and a lot of, like, disillusionment. And I mean, yeah, people feel quite, quite defeated and disheartened and really disempowered. All the dis words.
Speaker C:
Dis, dis, dis. And so I feel like that's why people are so attracted to something like this. And it feels pretty low stakes to be in the audience and just get to, like, be around it and watch it and, you know, participate maybe through an anonymous love note or whatever. So, yeah, it's really Beautiful. And it's such a community service that you guys are doing. And like, I kind of wanted the focus of this episode to be, like, cool. How can we inspire and empower people to take matters into their own hands if they do want to meet new friends or date or find new connections? But there's a lot of, you know, fear or social anxiety or apprehension. Yeah, I want to, like, give people some tools, some ideas, some inspo.
Speaker C:
Because that's something I'm a really big advocate for and constantly trying to encourage people and like, pump them up, like really gas them up to get them out there in the world, taking those risks and approaching people, or if they do have a cute connection or some eye contact or something in real life, to actually do something about it and like pursue that connection even just a tiny bit, so that they're not leaving, going home wondering or feeling a bit like, oh, bugger, I wish I'd said something or, you know. So, yeah, I feel like, I feel like I have found just personally and I mean, I. I'm a sex coach and so I talk to people a lot about, like, relating and dating and things like this. So through a lot of conversations that I'm having, it feels like nowadays people are so much less willing to, like, approach a stranger at a bar or make a conversation with a new person when they're out and about than they once were. And it's like we've collectively lost the ability to take emotional risks or be vulnerable or risk rejection or risk making someone feel uncomfortable. Like, there's all these reasons that we're so reluctant to actually just meet people in person the old fashioned way. And that makes me really sad. And I'm wondering, like, have you noticed a similar thing or have you heard things from people since doing this and having more conversations about dating, as I imagine you, you've been having.
Speaker C:
Yeah. Along these lines, like, what have you kind of discovered as. As a side effect of running these sorts of events?
Freya Graf:
That's a very good question, I think. Oh, sorry, I have to use that again.
Xander:
I think it's a little bit generational, it seems as well. Like, you know, when you hear sort of millennials and people around our age talking about it, they'll lament how hard dating apps are. But I think they still have those conversational skills, whereas a lot of younger people, they haven't really, especially ones that, I mean, covert would have happened when they're kind of just turning adults, when everyone else is going out and having this wild time and kind of finding themselves They've been locked up in their parents house for two years. So, I mean, that's going to have a bit of an effect. And I think as well, just having screens around us all the time. Like, it used to be if you went to a bar, you might feel a bit lonely. And, you know, you're more inclined to have a chat with the bartender, which leads to chatting to other people near you. But I mean, if you can pull out a novel on your phone and just read it, like, it's the easier thing to do, so it's not as scary.
Xander:
So a lot of the time you're just going to go for that easy option. And I think we kind of. It's easy to disconnect from reality a lot and just sort of hide.
Speaker C:
Yeah, big time.
Freya Graf:
Yeah. Yeah, I think you're right. I think it is generational too. Like. Yeah, because obviously all three of us as being, you know, millennials, we've been adults for a while. So, you know, Covid was a couple of years for us, but it wasn't, you know, a couple of years for us. Yeah, yeah, exactly. We're learning how to be adults.
Freya Graf:
That's very, very different. I just feel like. How do I put this? Like, if you're out with your friends and you see someone that you want to talk to, I can completely understand why you would feel apprehensive about going up to someone and saying, hi. That's because that is quite a scary thing. But I can also understand what it would be like being that person, having someone interrupt your time and say, hi, how you doing? How uncomfortable that would be. So I think a lot of it really just comes down to reading the room a bit. Also, like a point, I'm just kind of repeating what Xander was saying, but a point that I want to make. And this is something you raised at the start of this podcast, Freya, is that people are going out less.
Freya Graf:
Like, people are having less time outside of their homes or without, outside of their larger circle of friends going out less because things are just so expensive. You can't get around that.
Speaker C:
Yeah.
Freya Graf:
And also that means that when you do go out with your friends, like, say, for example, if Xander and I go out with a bunch of our friends and we're sitting at a bar, we'll be like, you know, a cluster of, you know, eight to 12 of us just having a casual drink. But that's pretty impenetrable from someone else's standpoint if they wanted to come over and say hi. But at the same time, we're not integrating with other people all that much either. Whereas I do feel like before COVID there was much more cross pollination going on. Like you'd go out to a bar that you've been to before. It's like, oh, I know 20 of these people. And you'd hang out and you'd start talking to other people. Oh, this is my friend.
Freya Graf:
They do this. You can talk to them because you have this interest. It's like, oh, that's quite nice. Whereas I feel like now there are just so many walls and some of them, this needs to be said, some of those walls are there for a very good reason, but others, I feel are there as a bit of a social hangover from, you know, not being able to do it for so long. And then there's that element of like, oh, do people actually want to talk to me? Maybe I'll just sit in the corner, read a novel on my phone.
Xander:
Maybe.
Freya Graf:
Maybe that's the easier way to get around this.
Speaker C:
Totally, yeah. I think like, we've, we're in that hangover from COVID And then also just like the effect of social media and dating apps I think can't be understated. Like, there's like a crazy statistic about like social anxiety and, and how much it spiked after Instagram was invented. And if you were of the generation where, you know, Instagram came about when you were, you know, a teenager, you're pretty much like the, the social anxiety is through the roof. Whereas our generation kind of just narrowly escaped. Like, I didn't have Instagram until I was like in my 20s sort of thing. And yeah, I think I did like a quick little bit of Googling for some, for some data. And there was like a, in Australia, there's a review of 45 studies and it found that around 85% of people linked dating app use to having a poor body image.
Speaker C:
Nearly 50% associated it with negative mental health outcomes, including depression and anxiety. There's like, like so many people who use dating apps have been ghosted so many times that that just sort of elevates the social anxiety. It drops your self esteem.
Xander:
I mean, there's probably people that have been rejected more times in a year on the dating app than they ever.
Freya Graf:
Have in their life.
Speaker C:
Exactly. We're not equipped for that. Yeah, like, yeah, that's gonna have a.
Freya Graf:
Massive effect on you.
Speaker C:
56% of Gen Z say fear of rejection has prevented them from pursuing relationships. And 51% of millennials. And so there's this like increasing fear of rejection because we are on one hand copying a lot more of it on the interweb. But then in real life, like we're taking less risks and approaching people less because we're becoming like so damaged from being rejected or ghosted so much online. And so, yeah, like it's become a big reason that people are not even attempting to date. It's a big reason why people are staying single is anx. And it's just like really sad to me. And it's so understandable.
Speaker C:
Like I so get it. And I, and I also know that, you know, like dating apps can be super helpful as a tool for certain people with different lifestyles, different abilities, different capacities to actually meet folk in person and everything like that. You know, people with disabilities, people who live rurally or remotely, people with a lot of social anxiety or just introverts that don't want to have to leave the house as much. Like it's so helpful for those scenarios. But also I can't help but feel like it's, it's got like this flavor of this is, this is a tool but, and there can be benefits, but it's also like this poisoned chalice. It's like we're being sold a solution to a problem that was created by the same industry and the same like the solution is the problem and it's like chicken and egg. So I'm like definitely of the opinion that the apps, whether it be social media, lowering your self esteem and your confidence or the dating apps, you know, conditioning you to be constantly rejected and therefore not feel like taking risks in person. I think that they've like fucked us up basically.
Speaker C:
And so I've just been like on a huge mission to kind of boycott that and get people out there in person, changing the culture of dating where possible. Which is why I'm really attracted to like live events like your, your events. Because like you said, it is really tricky when there's an impenetrable social situation and it's not always going to be welcome to approach someone necessarily. It's not always going to be easy to kind of like create an opportunity. But when there's a full room of people that are there to kind of celebrate and be entertained by and encourage connection, it's just a different energy. And so there's a little bit more permission perhaps to like approach people. Anyway, that was a big rant. But let's talk a little bit about how we might, you know, bring back a bit of like IRL dating or create, you know, a meet cute with someone.
Connor:
Hey, Baby babes, sorry to interrupt. I just had to pop my head into the lounge here and mention another virtual lounge that I'd love you to get around. It's the Labia Lounge Facebook group that I've created for listeners of the potty to mingle in. There you'll find extra bits and bobs, like freebies behind the scenes, or discounts for offerings from guests who have been interviewed on the podcast. They'll also be hopefully inspiring, thought provoking conversations and support from a community of labial legends like yourself. My vision for this is that it becomes a really supportive, educational and hilarious resource for you to have more access to me and a safe space to ask questions you can't ask anywhere else. So head over to the links in the show notes or look up the Labia Lounge group in Facebook and I'll see you in there. And now back to the episode.
Freya Graf:
I'm just thinking about what you were just saying. I agree with what you were just saying, by the way. That was a very well constructed rant and thank you so much. That's very good. But we were saying this actually, Xander. We were saying this last week. Xander. Dating's.
Freya Graf:
Dating should be fun. It should be fun. It should be a good time. Even if you go out with someone and I've been on several dates that were not very good, but it doesn't mean I didn't enjoy them. It's just like, yeah, this doesn't really work out. Let's just hang out and have a drink and talk about how much dating sucks. I don't know, like, it doesn't have to be the end of the world. Not every single interaction you have with someone once there's the bent of being romanticized.
Freya Graf:
It doesn't have to be a make or break situation. It's not, you know, you're not curing a disease. You're not trying to, you know, populate planet. You're having a drink with someone that you barely know. And that's kind of how it's meant to be. It should be kind of fun. And I think that you're completely right about dating apps being very important for some people in, you know, whatever situations they're in. And that's incredibly important.
Freya Graf:
But, you know, it doesn't mean that that's important for absolutely everyone. In the same way that a system of, I don't know, a system of education doesn't apply to every single person. And, you know, this one particular recipe doesn't have to be enjoyed by everyone. It's for some People, but not others. And I think that once that's pushed as being the norm, if that's not right for you, maybe you do feel like you're doing it wrong or you're not good at this, but it's not the case at all. It's just this one very specific and very kind of. I say this with no judgment, but very kind of synthetic way of connecting with people on a romantic level. Maybe that's just not for you.
Freya Graf:
Maybe you could do something else and it's harder in a way because you don't have to, you know, you can't do it when you wake up in the morning on your phone, you have to have to go out and try something. But ultimately I think it's substantially more rewarding. And that feeling of, of interpersonal connection is something that we thrive on at Human LoveQuest. And that's why people come on the show. That's why people come and see the show. And yet you don't get that from looking at a heavily curated digital trading card of someone's, you know, stats on a dating app. And I'm not saying that with judgment. Once again, like, I've done that before.
Freya Graf:
I've been on them before. I did that exact same thing. And then you end up looking at people like, oh, yeah, they're pretty cute. I don't know, they're a Scorpio. Does that work for me? It's like, oh my God, what's wrong with you? Like, just get it together, you know? But I think once you kind of.
Xander:
Some classic Aries behavior coming from you there.
Freya Graf:
I am an Aries. That is true.
Speaker C:
Yeah, completely agree. It's, it's a soup. It's just a super interesting time that we're in right now with like, yeah, just the, the shift in the dating landscape and just the social landscape. It's, it's interesting.
Xander:
Economically. It plays into it as well because, I mean, one of the best ways to meet people and start dating is a nice, relaxing, neutral atmosphere. And house parties were great for that. But less and less people can even afford to go in a share house and rent. You know, more and more people are going into apartments, not so good for parties. So like, it's just, there's less and less ways that you can affordably meet people that you haven't met.
Freya Graf:
Also, like how, speaking of, speaking of dystopian, how depressing is it that we're bringing the very real concern of the current financial climate of 2025 into potentially meeting strangers? Like, that's nuts. That's not good. This is not good.
Speaker C:
Yeah, it's not a good position to be in. Like, everything feels like it's actively working against us finding more human connection, honestly.
Freya Graf:
Yeah. You know, I'm single because, you know, the interest rates are too high. That's. That's not a sentence anyone should be saying.
Speaker C:
That's a Black Mirror episode.
Xander:
I mean, I don't want to say it's the billionaire's fault, but it's the billionaire.
Speaker C:
Everything is.
Xander:
Yeah. They've made everything so expensive. Now we can't even date anymore.
Freya Graf:
Well, speaking of making things more expensive to kind of piggyback on your dating app, rant Freya earlier. I mean, it's been a while since I've been on any kind of dating app, but they're all monetized. That's the other thing.
Speaker C:
Yeah.
Freya Graf:
So if you want to get the most out of them, by which I guess that means the app working as it should, you've got to pay a subscription fee, and that's how people see you. That becomes a level of, oh, well, I can pay for this. And then I'm, you know, more attractive to people. I'll be seen by more people. So it's bringing this strange. I'm going to use a big word here. It's. That might.
Freya Graf:
Might be a bit too. Not right for this. But I feel like bringing classism into a dating app and then trying to monetize someone's loneliness is like. Oh, just. It's in such poor taste, really.
Xander:
They even do things with the algorithms as well that you'll only. I've heard on Tinder, you'll only really match with people that are Tinder's idea of how attractive you are. So if you get lots of matches, you'll get shown to other people to get lots of matches. And it's now deciding who you find attractive fully.
Speaker C:
It's a popularity contest. It's an attractive contest. It's like, it's. You're ranked by the algorithm. They also benefit from keeping you on the app and keeping you using it and paying. So it's actually not in their best interest to do what it says on the box and find you a match that's actually compatible with you. So, like, you know, it is a business model that's preying on our loneliness and our desire for connection. And that's.
Speaker C:
I feel like, you know, there's a lot of evidence now that it's actively working against you actually meeting someone. So it's a fucking conspiracy.
Freya Graf:
Pretty much.
Xander:
So it's actually pretty much a monopoly as well. I think there's one company that owns pretty much all of them as far as I know.
Speaker C:
Yeah. And like apparently about 65% of couples meet on the apps now and like a crazy percentage of single people are on there. It's. It's basically the main way that people meet.
Freya Graf:
65%.
Xander:
That's grim.
Freya Graf:
That is a lot. Nothing against, nothing against people who have. That's great. Like I'm glad that it worked for you. But that is, that's alarmingly high. Wow.
Speaker C:
Yeah. I mean people, I find especially like the younger generations, they will be completely shocked if they like my last partner. Like we would often have people be like shocked that we met, quote unquote in the wild because that was so rare nowadays apparently. So this just makes me really heartbroken and sad and yeah, I want to do the segment get pregnant and die. And then I want to just like dream up a few ideas or tips for people to try to put themselves out there a little bit more and like get into the headspace of like it is actually still possible to meet people in person. But before we do that, get pregnant and die, do one or both of you have an anecdote about your sex education that you feel like sharing? We are on the labia lounge after all.
Freya Graf:
Don't have sex cuz you will get pregnant and don't have sex in the missionary position. Don't have, don't have sex standing up. Just don't do it. Prom sex education, which I think of a good. Like I, I was taught sex education very early on from I guess my parents and then also we had sex ed classes at my primary school from like grade 4 onwards. So I guess looking back on it, that's pretty, pretty forward thinking. But like you know, diagrams of like penises and vaginas and how babies get made and nothing too graphic about, you know, sex stuff. It wasn't even really about sexual intercourse.
Freya Graf:
It was more about, well, this is how this happens.
Speaker C:
Yeah, reproduction.
Freya Graf:
Everyone's got this. Yeah, yeah, reproduction and, and health and that kind of thing. And then I'm sure I'm not the only person here who was, you know, gifted. The pleasure of a few afternoons with Healthy Harold the giraffe.
Xander:
Yeah, he mainly told me not to do drugs as I recall. I don't think.
Freya Graf:
Yeah, no, he was pretty, he was pretty vocal about that. Some would say too vocal. But you know, I think towards the end my memory is Healthy Harold was also just like, hey, this is going to happen to you. You know, you're going to grow some hair and things are going to change. And it's like, oh, thanks Harold.
Xander:
I think I had a.
Freya Graf:
Thanks.
Xander:
Pretty similar. We had the where did I come from and what's happening to my body cartoons Mum made us watch. And then yeah, from primary school because I just went to a, to a public school. So pretty stock standard. Just heteronormative practices on how to get pregnant. And you know what, your parts are labeled so not too bad. Like I think a lot of friends that went to like religious schools are the ones where they get it a bit bonkers. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Xander:
I think back then public education was robust and funded properly.
Freya Graf:
Yeah. And very free of shame. I remember it was just very like this is what happens. Yeah. Like because I went to a public school as well and yeah, it was very similar to Xander.
Xander:
But yeah, it was very. Just the fact.
Speaker C:
Yes.
Xander:
There wasn't really like, hey, here's how you might feel, here's how to avoid hurting someone's emotions. It was more just like this makes kids.
Speaker C:
Yes. The science, the biology. Yeah, yeah, yeah. As opposed to like pleasure or consent or whatever. Yeah, I suppose it very much light on that. Yeah. Yeah. And I guess like, I mean it's so beautiful to hear that it was very shame free for you, Connor.
Speaker C:
Because I guess it depends on the person teaching it and who gets loved with the, with that class.
Freya Graf:
And also I guess like grade four is very young to be learning that stuff. So that's kind of before there's any kind of like, why would there be shame in sex? Like you need to be a couple of years older for puberty to really put the foot on the gas. And then it's, it's, it's shame central. But I do, but I do remember in, I was definitely in high school because there were sex education classes in high school too. But that was much more practical. That was, here's how you use a condom. Here's how this works. Again, very heteronormative because this is the 90s we're talking about here.
Freya Graf:
But I do remember there was a sex education teacher who was showing all the boys how to use a condom and they used as a prop. It wasn't, you know, like a sex toy or a fake penis. It was a giant cucumber. Like not even a Lebanese cucumber. Like, like one of those big like gigantic cucumbers. And it was like, who does this benefit? I mean we're all pretty weird, awkward 15 year old boys and like you're Bringing this to the table. Like, what else? I don't know. It just seemed like they could have used a better prop is all I'm saying.
Xander:
Our high school used a banana, and I was really ripped off that they didn't do it because I was the youngest of three and I was so excited to see the condom banana demonstration. But we were just told, like, we didn't get the visual aid. So you got the rumor from Wimberley High. So, yeah, it's probably getting pretty old. Getting a bit mushy. I mean, my brother's five years.
Freya Graf:
They couldn't. Well, I guess it was a public school. They couldn't spring for the extra banana.
Xander:
Not in the budget, mate. You know, we got those gym mats and that really wiped us out.
Freya Graf:
That's it. Wasn't doing it tough.
Speaker C:
At least you weren't size shamed by a cucumber.
Freya Graf:
No.
Speaker C:
Cool. All right, well, I am curious because you guys are men, and I hear from a lot of men that they feel really uncertain and, like, afraid of approaching people or asking people out or kind of making an effort because they. Yeah, they don't want to be a creep. They don't want to make. Especially if it's in a heterosexual dynamic. They don't want to make women feel uncomfortable or, you know, cornered in any way by their advances. But then I hear from a lot of women that they're, like, dying to be approached and really want a guy to make an effort and want to be asked out. And, you know, they feel.
Speaker C:
They feel as though this new awareness around consent culture, around gender stereotypes, while it's been super positive in so many ways, it's also caused, like, a mounting reluctance in men to actually make moves or take risks. And so not only is there, like, another really common thing I hear from people, which is, like, a massive fear of rejection, which is, like, one of the main reasons why people don't approach. They don't want to take that risk of rejection. But, yeah, a lot of men are just, like, really cautious and don't want to be sleazy or don't want to be making anyone feel uncomfortable or pressured in any way, which is, like, beautiful intention, but then it sort of means that, like, nothing's really happening. And yeah, I'm wondering, like, and we'll get to, like, the. The female side of this, but I'm wondering, like, if you have any thoughts on this or any ideas for, like, men to do this in, like, a non creepy, non threatening kind of way that is more likely to be welcomed by A woman?
Freya Graf:
Well, yeah, I guess if you're, if you're a man and you're feeling unsure about that, which I understand, by the way. I think if you're not a creep and you're not threatening, then you're fine.
Xander:
Yeah, but I mean, a creep doesn't creep though, does he? That's the problem.
Freya Graf:
Yeah. Well, yeah, but I guess the bigger problem is like, what do you do? I mean, like when I was, you know, in the post covered years when I was single and going out to bars and stuff, be like, oh, I really like to say hi to that woman because she seems really nice. But there was, there was a definite thing of like, well, I don't want to ruin a night. I don't want to give her the burden of saying, actually, I'm here with my friends or I don't really want to talk to you. It wasn't really about rejection as much as it was about I don't know what your life's like. You know, I don't want to, you know, maybe you're out here with your friends and me saying hello is like, oh God, just leave us alone. So that was a factor. But yeah, I don't know, it's hard to say.
Freya Graf:
But yeah, I've heard that from a lot of, a lot of women friends of mine that they're, they are dying to be. Not dying, that was the wrong word to use. They are hungry to be approached in a bar by someone. But because that's not happening to go back to a previous discussion, they are relying on things like dating apps and they are relying on things that are fairly impersonal mediums. But yeah, I don't know, maybe it's going to take some time for that to become less of a, less of a problem for people to get over.
Xander:
I think if I was going to give any advice to guys that are worried about coming off as being creepy and worried about getting rejected is maybe just try and have conversations where the goal isn't to pick someone up or to get their number. Just have a chat. And then you'll pretty quickly realize about five, you know, even like a minute or so in, if you have anything in common with that person and maybe just start thinking of it that way. It's just you just having a chat. Yeah. Just let it happen organically. And if you do think there was a connection and you want to maybe meet her again without being creepy, maybe offer to give her your number, balls in her court, then it's, you know.
Speaker C:
Yeah.
Freya Graf:
And also that's That's a really good way to, you know, learn how to read the room. Like, yeah, like talking to someone and seeing how their body language is and how they're reacting to you, talking to them. Just because it might potentially be somewhat negative, it doesn't mean that you shouldn't do it again. It just means that that's. That wasn't right for that particular situation. Yeah.
Speaker C:
Yeah, 100%, yeah. And I love. I do often just suggest, like, if you do want to, you know, give them your number and just say, hey, there's literally no pressure here. I've really enjoyed connecting with you. I'd love to get to know you more. I'm going to give you my number so that it's. The ball's in your court. And if you don't message me, absolutely fine.
Speaker C:
That's your choice. And if you do, I'll know that it's because you actually want to. Almost kind of like saying, hey, I'm interested here, and I'd love you to message me, but no, no hard feelings if you don't. It's just, like transparent communication. It's open, it's honest, it's upfront. It feels nice to receive, you know, just a. It's an expression of interest. It's not a contract.
Speaker C:
It's not, like, pressuring or creepy. It's just confident, and there's something really hot about that as well. And if you're a man and you don't want to make someone feel uncomfortable, then that's a great strategy so that you, you know, you express your interest and then you leave them to it, and you're like, here's my number. I'm going to leave. And if they contact you, then, you know, it's because they've chosen to and they want to be there. And it's not an obligatory thing or a foreign response or anything like that. So I think that's great. And also, yeah, loved what you said, Zander, about, like, let's just treat it as an opportunity to connect and have a little conversation.
Speaker C:
Like, it's not. We're not, like, you know, writing checks here. We're just opening up a conversation and seeing where it goes. And the thing that people, I think, forget is that it's not fully going to be on them to carry the entire interaction. They might start the interaction and open it up, and then depending on what they get back from the other person, you know, it could roll on from there. And it. It takes two to connect. And if there's no receptivity or they're not connecting, you're going to be able to tell, like, they're not going to, you know, think you're a creep because you just continue pressing the point.
Speaker C:
If you're consciously aware of someone's energy and, you know, you are noticing those sort of social cues which most people, I feel like, can get a feel for. And if you're someone that's conscientious enough that you're literally not approaching women because you don't want to make them feel uncomfortable, you're probably not a creep. You're probably quite thoughtful and in tune with people. So you may as well go up, trust your intuition to figure it out within the first minute or two, whether they want to talk to you or not, and whether there's enough kind of conversational chemistry and compatibility. And if you feel like you're getting plenty back from that person and it's just flowing, then awesome. And if not, cool, you risk nothing by just being like, cool. Awesome. So lovely to talk to you.
Speaker C:
See you later. I'm going to leave you to it. It's not going to necessarily ruin someone's night. And, like, I've been really pushing women, too, as well, to kind of, you know, stop resting. Like, I mean, so many people still have quite traditional, should we say, kind of ideas around gender. And, you know, a lot of women, like, want to be chased, want the guy to approach them, want them to take the lead and make the move and initiate. But it's also, like, a lot of the kinds of men that, you know, we want to date are probably in the camp of, I don't want to make her uncomfortable. I don't want to be a creep.
Speaker C:
I don't want to ruin her night. And so therefore, I'm always saying to women, cool, like, well, you're not off the hook. Like, you can't just, like, sit back and wait for someone to approach you. That's. That's so fucking heteronormative and outdated. You actually need to send some signals that you're open to being approached. So maybe you make eye contact a couple of times in a row. Maybe you hold the eye contact a little bit longer and you smile at them.
Speaker C:
It could be as simple as that. Maybe you say hello, and then that opens the door for them to kind of go, oh, okay. I guess that's like a green light to engage. And then now we're having a conversation. Now we're connecting. Now we're actually seeing what's up. But it takes two, and it's so tricky when people feel like it's all on them or it's all on the other person because like, that's not an interaction. And it's going to be pretty hard to get things going if we're both sort of sitting in those very separate camps with no bridge across to one another.
Speaker C:
Yeah. So. And I feel like it's been something. I mean, I coach people to do this a lot. I also practice what I preach and it's fucking terrifying. But I've been literally asking people out on dates in person. And I'm introverted. Like, I am not happy about it, but I'm like, fuck.
Speaker C:
Well, it ain't gonna do itself. So I've been approaching people and I'll start chatting to them or find an excuse to talk to them or dance near them, have an interaction. And then if it feels like there's a vibe, I'll just be like, hey, are you single? And like, if so, do you want to go on a date with me? And it's like so scary. But people fucking dig it. Like, they appreciate it even if it's a no. Even if they're like, oh, I've actually got a partner or actually I'm not really available. They're like, but thank you. Like, how flattering and how refreshing that you had the, you know, ovaries to do that because no one does that anymore.
Speaker C:
And so I feel like I've been on this total power trip being like, wow, I'm such a boss bitch. I'm asking people on dates, look at me go. I've got all these confidence. I actually don't have that much confidence. I just kind of get off on the shock factor of someone actually being so blunt and open and honest. And I mean, it's not going to be the same in every situation. But I've found that the people that I've encouraged, lots of my friends and people that I coach that I've encouraged to kind of take that risk and actually put themselves out there like that transparently and with kindness and warmth and no expectation. They are on such a high after they do it because it's really empowering and it's like a huge gift that you're giving this other person to actually just show that you're interested and that it's, you know, it's.
Speaker C:
I don't know, I feel like obviously every situation and every person's different, but it's actually a really cool thing to get into the habit of doing because like my self view and my confidence has had A bit of a boost as a result because I'm like, wow, that was really scary. And I still did it. And even if I don't get the result I was hoping for, I still feel really stoked with myself that I had the confidence to do that and I took the shot. And that person has at worst felt maybe a little bit awkward but potentially flattered. And I now don't have to go home beating myself up that I spent all night being too scared to approach that person that I thought looked really interesting or that I was attracted to. And I don't have to wonder and feel, you know, kind of bummed that I didn't have the guts and that I'm still going home lonely and single and you know, craving connection and yet I didn't do anything about it when I had the chance. So now if I have, if I'm feeling like, oh, I just, like most of the time will try to make myself manufacture a way to talk to that person if it's possible and just figure out what the vibe is so that I don't wonder and I don't feel like, damn, I wish I had actually done something about that.
Freya Graf:
Yeah, fortune favors the brave.
Xander:
Yeah. And like you said earlier as well, like, you shouldn't feel bad for giving it a shot and getting turned down. Like I always used to think with dating, like every date that doesn't work out and wasn't great, you're still learning something about yourself. You're learning about what you're looking for and what you're not into. You're also learning from the fuck ups that you've done and not to do them again. So each time you do it, each time you put yourself out there, you should always feel good about it because you're always going to learn something or you'll be getting a little more comfortable at doing it because you know, muscle memory to chat to people and yeah, you just gotta get yourself out there and do it. I know it's easier said than done and I'm kind of in my little ivory tower now that I'm fuck you.
Freya Graf:
No, his wedding cake actually was shaped like an ivory tower. It was quite resplendent.
Xander:
Yeah, show off. But yeah, you just gotta keep putting yourself out there and be proud of yourself even if it doesn't work out cause you gave it a shot. And as we've just discussed, that's more than 90% of other people these days.
Freya Graf:
It really is. And also like, if you're having trouble going out and approaching someone, maybe your Reasons for feeling strange about it are different to someone else's reasons. So, you know, it's such an individual thing. Maybe figure out like why do you feel strange about this? Is it because of something that you've read or something you've experienced or something that a friend of yours has said? Like, what does this all come down to? And you know, maybe just it's going to be a really positive experience for you to kind of, as Xander was just saying, like, learn a bit more about yourself. Like how do you go situations.
Xander:
You're not going to get a milkshake poured on your head. Like teen shows lied to us. Far less common than you.
Freya Graf:
I've never had a milkshake poured on my head and I watched Heartbreak High a lot when I was growing up.
Xander:
So.
Speaker C:
Good.
Freya Graf:
They were so milkshake heavy in that.
Xander:
Show a lot of times as well.
Freya Graf:
Well, okay, let's, let's not, let's not, let's not throw accusations of dairy based violence against me, okay? Like, have I, have I deserved a milkshake in the face? Who can say? But we haven't. I haven't received one. So, you know, I think the stats really do speak for themselves.
Xander:
The price of milk is on your side, guys. Like it's way too expensive to throw away anymore.
Speaker C:
Yeah, yeah, you're probably not going to get a drink in the face. Let's, let's face it. I think.
Freya Graf:
Well, that's like 14 bucks at least. Like you a 14 house wine. It's like no.
Xander:
Drink on your head. They were way too rich for you anyway.
Speaker C:
Exactly, exactly. They're on Raya, whatever that like elite exclusive platform is. Yeah, yeah, I totally agree. It's like it's practicing a skill as well. It's practicing the skill of communication, of know, navigating social situations that are slightly more high stakes than, you know, chatting with a friend that you've known forever. I think it's like never a bad idea to put yourself out of your comfort zone. I do that regularly almost too much. I'm fucking exhausted with how often I do that.
Speaker C:
It's a personality flaw, but it's like character building, you know, And I think people are losing the drive to do that and the ability to do that more and more because we get cushioned in all of this. Well, screens basically, like everything is, is becoming quite, yeah, quite synthetic and everything's being done for us. We're on screens all the time. We kind of don't have to put ourselves out of our comfort zone as much anymore. We Basically, never have to leave the house if we don't want to. We don't even have to interact with the UberEats delivery driver. Like, we are not having as many incidental interactions anymore. And so there's this social atrophy that's happening that I mentioned, and I'm trying to combat that.
Speaker C:
And as an introvert, it's really hard and I don't want to, but I know it's so important. It's so fucking important because at the end of the day, we need human connection and we need interaction. It's good for us, it's good for our mental health. And also, like, you're never going to meet anyone if you're. Yeah. If you don't take some risks, you know, even on the road.
Freya Graf:
Yeah. Also, you know, if. If as a society where, like, we're rusty, which I think is kind of one of the main messages I'm getting from everything you've. You've been saying, you know people. You don't just become a really good public speaker. Like, very few people have that skill. You don't just put on a pair of roller skates and you can suddenly do all these amazing tricks like, you need to practice. It's like any other form of social interaction.
Freya Graf:
Yeah, I know.
Xander:
Harder than we thought.
Freya Graf:
Yeah. But you were really good at it, though, because you got lessons. Xander, this is a good analogy, actually. You got lessons and you were really good at skating. We should go roller skating again soon.
Xander:
You're being far too kind.
Freya Graf:
You were great. I don't know, I thought you did some cool stuff.
Connor:
Excuse this quick interruption. I'm shamelessly seeking reviews and five star ratings for the potty, because as I'm sure you've noticed by now, it's pretty fab. And the more people who get to hear it, the more people I can help with it. Reviews and ratings actually do make a big difference to this little independent podcaster. And it's really easy to just quickly show your support by taking that simple act of either leaving five stars for the show on Spotify, or even better, writing a written review and leaving five stars over on Apple Podcasts. Or if you're a real overachiever, you can do them both. That would be mad. If you're writing a review, though, just be sure to use G rated words, because despite the fact that this is a podcast about sexuality, words like sex can be censored and your review won't make it through the gates.
Freya Graf:
Lame.
Connor:
Anyway, I would personally recommend doing that right now while you remember Just to get on top of it and let me know you're with me on this journey. Thanks, gang. Enjoy the rest of the epi.
Xander:
But I think if people are looking for, like, a nice, easy way to go talk to someone that's nice and low risk, I think you cannot go wrong with just paying someone a compliment. Like, obviously, make sure it's not something that could be construed as sexualized. But that way, even if it doesn't turn into a great conversation, you've probably made that person feel better from that interaction. So it's a nice, safe, low risk. You don't have to sit there thinking too much about what to say. Like, if they got a pair of shoes that you think looks cool or something like that, just throw a compliment out and just say, hey, I really think they're cool. Leave it at that. Don't get too in your head about it.
Xander:
See if it turns into a conversation. If it doesn't, you've probably still made that person happy.
Speaker C:
Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And, yeah, I think, like, yeah, definitely, it's a. It's a skill that you practice, and the more you do it, the less scary it becomes. And the more you gather experiences that almost, like, go against your fear. Like, you go, oh, the fucking world didn't collapse in on me, and they didn't throw a milkshake in my face. You're kind of collecting data every time you practice this. And it gets less scary through immersion therapy.
Freya Graf:
Yeah. And if you do compliment someone on their shoes and they say, actually, I don't really appreciate that, please don't talk about. About my shoes, then, you know, not to bring that person's shoes up. And that's still good.
Xander:
I'd like to make it just a point as well, that obviously don't compliment someone on, like, their looks can be construed very badly. But I mean, like, on an item that they have, generally a safe bet, because most people have a story of where they got it, and they can't wait to tell everyone, you know, how little they paid for it as a. Yeah.
Speaker C:
Which country they brought it back from.
Xander:
Yeah. In the south, they'll tell you what country they got it from. In the north, they'll, like, try and put it down and be like, oh, it was like, three bucks.
Speaker C:
Yeah, yeah, 100. And like, you know, I. I am. I'm a big fan of literally, like, voicing the elephant in the room. Like, I'll be like. I'll say if it's awkward, or I'll be like, yeah, it you just, I don't know, like, seem like you had very warm, warm energy or you looked like a friend I knew. And I just felt drawn to, like, coming and speaking to you because I kept feeling like you're familiar in some way or whatever. But it took me two hours to work up the courage to come and talk to you because, like, this is kind of nerve wracking.
Speaker C:
Like, I'll literally just say, like, hey, you're a human. I'm a human. This shit's hard. If you want me to, like, if this is like, yeah, it's, it's kind of, it's my brand these days to just like, voice the thing that no one's saying. And people appreciate that. I feel like people find that, yeah. Refreshing and sometimes even disarming. So it's definitely worked in my favor before to just be like, yeah, I, I, we had a little interaction at the bar earlier.
Speaker C:
Loved your vibe. Kind of wanted to, like, ask you out or talk to you, but, like, it's taken me, you know, since then to just like, build up the bravery to come and talk to you. And it's so fine if you say no and I'm going to be okay, but I just thought I just had to do it, you know, And I think that's just so humanizing. Like, people are like, oh, wow. I instantly feel, you know, more safe or more comfortable with this person because they are being really transparent and really vulnerable and it's like a fucking olive branch that they can, they don't have to take it. But that's like, that's kind of my approach generally is like, just be authentic and vulnerable and real and if they're picking up what you're putting down, great. And if not, you've lost nothing. You've just practiced taking that shot once more and navigating an interesting social situation.
Xander:
Yeah, spot on.
Speaker C:
Yeah. Let's do the segment tmi. Before we wrap up, do either of you, or both of you have a TMI story that you'd like to share? Generally, people share stuff that maybe for normal dinner table conversation it would be considered too much information. The point of this sort of whole podcast, and indeed this segment is very much to kind of de, stigmatize, demystify, remove shame, talk about the real shit that no one's talking about so that we all feel less alone and a little bit more, like, able to relate to one another. No pressure or anything.
Xander:
I'm not a particularly squeamish person, so generally, like, it's hard to have too much Information for me. Like, I'm fascinated by everything.
Freya Graf:
Yeah.
Xander:
Just trying to think if there's something really gauche that someone said that was the wrong place.
Speaker C:
Well, I mean, it can be. It doesn't have to be TMI for you because, like, nothing's TMI for me either. But I guess things. Things that might be TMI for the average population. So it could be about sex, it could be about, you know, bodies, poo periods. Could be about mental health, could be about money. Like, people don't talk about this as freely, and I just want to normalize talking about the stuff that no one's, you know, necessarily talking about. So it's okay if you can't think of anything too.
Xander:
I mean, I was on a date with someone once who straight away, within about five minutes, told me that a parent were cousins. Wow. Yeah.
Freya Graf:
Wow, like first cousins?
Speaker C:
First cousins.
Xander:
Yeah, like first cousins.
Freya Graf:
Wow.
Speaker C:
Okay.
Xander:
Yeah. Which is great because my parents are second cousins. So finally I got to look down on someone, actually.
Speaker C:
Yeah. Wow.
Xander:
My family tree is a wreath.
Speaker C:
Oh, my God. That's. That is a joke that I can tell you've said before.
Xander:
Look, the date didn't work out, but I feel pretty good.
Speaker C:
Totally slightly less inbred. Rock on.
Xander:
Yeah, There we go.
Freya Graf:
In terms of a date thing that happened, the first time I ever went on a dating app date was after a year of lockdown. So I hadn't used dating apps before then because, you know, I'm always out in the world meeting people, blah, blah, blah. But during lockdown, that was not an option. So I'm on Hit Hinge, and I think it was on Bumble as well. Maybe. Anyway, I started talking to this girl on Hinge, and we arranged to meet up for a drink. I'm like, oh, this sounds pretty cool. We spoke for a little bit, and, I don't know, she seemed fine to me.
Freya Graf:
Anyway, we get to. We get to go to this place in Hawthorne, weirdly, and we go there and have a drink, and the place is packed. It's a really nice summer's day. I'm like, you know, a little bit nervous because I've never really been on a dating update before. I'm like, what do you do? Is it just like a normal date? And she seemed nice. And we're sitting down having a drink, and she made a couple of weird comments fairly early on, and she's like, oh, you know, you live in the north. You know, you're also, you know, lefty over there. You're all such bleeding hearts.
Freya Graf:
I'm like, that's a weird thing to say. And then she said it again a bit later on. I was like, look, I just. I'm not. I'm not too sure what you mean by that. Like, what do you. What do you mean? We're all sort of radically left in the. In the north.
Freya Graf:
That's a very strange thing to say. And then she just kept dropping racial slurs and saying, well, you know, you never use this word. And she. She used some pretty horrific language that I obviously won't repeat. But she was saying it so casually, as if she was saying, like, water bottle. Like, just. It was really awful. And it was so odd because we'd just come out of a big lockdown period, and the first thing I thought of was, this is obviously a prank.
Freya Graf:
Someone's putting me up to this. And there's someone filming me from, like, an advantage point to see what I could. What I would do. And so I kind of, like, as casually as I could, try to explain to this person why you can't say those things as a fellow white person. It's just not good. It was just. It was just really odd. And then she kept pushing back and saying, no, they're just words.
Freya Graf:
I'm like, this is insane. So eventually I just left. And I was like, cool, I'm gonna go. And she's like, you don't want to come home with me? Like, why would I come? This is also for context. This is at 3 o' clock in the afternoon. So I'm like, this is very strange. And so I was like, I'm just gonna go. And so I went home.
Freya Graf:
I think I deleted Hinge on the way home in the Uber. And I was like, I think I had a drink with. Maybe even had a drink with you that night, Xander. I was like, I can't believe this is what dating apps are like. And you were like, what do you mean, this is.
Xander:
Yeah, I'm like, they're not.
Freya Graf:
They're not at all.
Xander:
Did you have that weird thing afterwards where you're like, what was it about me that made her think I'd respond well to this?
Freya Graf:
Yeah, it was really odd. I don't even remember what I said exactly. It was all such a blur. But I must have said something before, before then to make her say, oh, well, you know, you're so left wing. And you know something? I was like, what do you mean? It was just. It's all very strange.
Xander:
Strange thing of. Anytime I get in an Uber, like, late at night, and the driver is white, he just will instantly start talking about incredibly racist or homophobic stuff. And it's happened that many times that I'm starting to worry that there's something about me that makes it look like I'm up for it.
Speaker C:
Wow.
Xander:
Like, right after the confirmation of address, just straight into it.
Freya Graf:
Yeah. I had an Uber driver a couple.
Xander:
Weeks ago who many times. And I'm. I'm starting to wonder if I need to change something about my law.
Freya Graf:
I don't think it is. I think it's just, you know, because I had an Uber driver a couple of weeks ago who tried to unsuccessfully get me into a large discussion about immigration to Australia. He would have been at the march yesterday, actually. I reckon he was one of those guys, like, not. Not for the good guys, you know, he would have been like, anti immigration. I'm not racist. But, you know, immigration's not good. It's like, okay, all right.
Freya Graf:
I don't know. This is weird. Anyway, he tried to drag me into a discussion about that, saying, no, housing prices are so big because of immigration. Like, you know, if that's what he's heard, that's what he's heard. I'm not trying to shame someone because they have a different opinion to me or because they might be, in my opinion, misinformed. Right. And so I just. I said to him, well, this is why housing prices are so bad and why it's so hard to get a house.
Freya Graf:
It's not because of immigration. It's because of these government policies that started when John Howard was Prime Minister. Whatever. I'm not going to go down that rabbit hole. You can Google it yourselves. But, yeah, in my sturdy opinion, the reason that the housing market is so effed in Australia is because of John Howard's housing policy that he implemented in, like, 1997 or something. And it's not to do with immigration anyway. Like, so it's not just you, Xander.
Freya Graf:
That's the point of why I'm trying to say this. He obviously saw me, was like, you know what? This guy also gets it. I was like, I do not.
Speaker C:
Maybe the date that you went on with that person, like, she was rage baiting you because it's like a kink of hers. And she just wanted to, like, it's so. It's so strange to me. Yeah. Anyway, that's fucking hilarious. And I love that we just Rickrolled everyone with like a picture political podcast right at the end there. I guess, like, the sort of takeaway message that I would love to galvanize people with is One, come to a human love quest. And two, like, let's, like, let's just, like, take some shots, people.
Speaker C:
I want to give the listeners a challenge to, like, approach someone or start a conversation in real life. Next time you see someone that interests you, like, let's, let's just. And you can message me, message me about it or just be like, cool. Like I had this interaction. I just want it to be more normalized. I want it to be happening a little bit more in the wild. I want to bring back, like, cute romantic gestures or like, I used to write, like, cute little letters for, like, the barista at my local cafe, leaving my number. Or like, there's just so many ways that we can actually be bringing back a little bit of, like, I don't know, romantic intrigue and creativity and thoughtfulness.
Freya Graf:
And did you constantly have to find new cafes to go to if that was an unsuccessful method? How many cafes have you been through?
Speaker C:
Yeah, I used to live southside and I had to move north side because all the cafes. Nah, just joking. I've never lived south.
Freya Graf:
You burned through the south side.
Speaker C:
But like, I don't know, I just feel like people are doing that less and less. And I love, I love romance, I love creativity and little surprises and just doing stuff like that. I think, like, it's all. It's always, it's always fun and cute and I mean, as long as it's not stalkery. And I just want to see more of it. So, like, if people have done something like this or if you feel inspired to do something like this, please like, write in and let me know because that's dope. And I'll put the links to, like, Human Love Quest and the next events. It's always, as Connor said, last Tuesday of every month in Brunswick, and you guys are starting to do some other kind of cool events and it's starting to kind of take off and explode a bit lately, isn't it?
Freya Graf:
Yeah, yeah. Well, we've. We're doing our. We've already done two shows at Acme this year so far. We're doing our third one right at the end of this month. Also, actually, we did. We co curated a thing at the NGV last year with them for Art Design Week, which was really great. And we just did a big show in Hobart for the Beaker Street Science Festival.
Freya Graf:
So, yeah, you know, have show, will travel and it's really great doing them in different spaces too, because you realize, oh, people immediately understand what we're trying to do and they're Just very much on board with. With it. It's not, you know, you have to be from this particular section of Melbourne and know these people. It's like, no, no, no, no. This is for. Absolutely. We could just do this anywhere and it would work just as well. But if anyone.
Freya Graf:
If anyone listen to this podcast, would like to take a risk on something, it would be really good for us and hopefully for them if they signed up to be on Human LoveQuest. Because we always need people to come on the show, regardless of who you are or who you're looking for or what experience you have or anything. Like, nothing about that matters. It's about what you want. And if we can find space for you on the show, we would love to have you. It would be our absolute privilege to have you on our show. But in order for that to happen, people need to sign up. And if we're talking about going back to our talk about, you know, straight men feeling a bit strange approaching women in public, or I guess it's men approaching people generally, but I think we were specifically talking about hetero dudes before.
Freya Graf:
Out smallest demographic of people signing up for the show. Men looking to date women by a mile. Like, it's a slither. So, you know, if you want to see that as a bit of a challenge, if you're listening to this and you'd like to come on the show, let it be known we always need, you know, straight men or men who want to date women generally apply to be on the show.
Xander:
Probably got the highest chance of getting on the show as well, because we get so few that as soon as we do, it's like. Like instantly on. There's not really a waiting list for that.
Speaker C:
Yeah, yeah. And I feel like vomiting even saying this. This is so scary. But I'm actually gonna be the solo contestant on the next Human Love Quest, which I think I'll put this episode out probably just like a week before, at some point before the 30th of September, which is when the next one is. I've taken it upon myself to just get out of my comfort zone yet again and go on there. And we're gonna record it live to turn into an episode so people can listen to it and have, like, an experience of. Of the energy without actually being there. I'll kind of do anything for the plot and for content, but just for the record, this is like my worst nightmare, and I can't believe I've agreed to do it.
Speaker C:
But. But, yeah, I'm gonna be in the first round. I Think. And. And so, yeah, if anyone wants to come along just to lend some moral support, wear a T shirt with my face on it. Like, all of that would be super appreciated. And. And, yeah, I mean, I guess the next episode after this one might be a recording of.
Speaker C:
Of that, of me being on stage and you guys hosting and having a wild old time. I'm assuming you're going to probably find it quite tricky to find contestants to match me up with because I am straight and I'm into hetero dudes. So, yeah, people need to get on in and apply.
Freya Graf:
Well, we have. We have 30 days from now as of the recording of this. Of this podcast, so I'm pretty confident we can get the people that we need. And then also there's a vetting process. We don't just say, great, you're a man looking to date a woman. You'll do. It's like, no, no, no. We need to know a bit more about you, so don't worry.
Freya Graf:
We're not going to just throw you on stage with, like, three people who, you know, are looking to date a woman.
Speaker C:
Well, I'm. I'm in it for the. I'm in it for the notes, actually. I feel like some audience members might write me some notes. I think that every time I've seen this go down, a lot of. A lot of the notes are for the contestants on stage. So I'm like, okay, cool. Maybe.
Speaker C:
Maybe if the actual contestants on stage aren't for me, then who knows? Might get a note. Mostly I'm just trying to challenge myself and create some hilarious content. And yeah, I would also love, like, I initially got in touch with you guys because I would love to do some sort of collab event and, yeah, somehow join forces to create maybe some sort of dating event where. Yeah, I don't know. I don't know. We can chat about that another. Another time off air. But yeah, we're doing it.
Freya Graf:
Yeah. Great.
Speaker C:
Yeah. Yeah. All right, everybody, that's a wrap. I'll put all the links in the show notes and yeah, highly encourage you to come check out some of these events. Thanks, guys.
Freya Graf:
Awesome. Great. Thanks for having us on.
Connor:
Hey, me again. If you'd like to support the potty, and you've already given it five stars on whatever platform you're listening on, I want to mention that you can buy some really dope merch from the website and get your yourself a labia lounge tote tea togs.
Speaker C:
Yep, you heard that right.
Connor:
I even have labia lounge bathers or a cute fanny pack if that'd blow your hair back.
Speaker C:
So if fashion isn't your passion though.
Connor:
You can donate to my Buy Me a Coffee Donation page which is actually called Buy Me a Soy Chai Latte because I'll be the first to admit I'm a bit of a Melbourne cafe tosser like that. And yes, that is my coffee order. You can do a once off donation or an ongoing membership and sponsor me for as little as three fat ones a month. And I also offer one on one coaching and online courses that'll help you level up your sex life and relationship with yourself and others in a really big way.
Speaker C:
So every bit helps because it ain't.
Connor:
Cheap to put out a sweet podcast into the world every week out of my own pocket. So I will be undyingly grateful if you you support me and my biz financially in any of these ways. And if you like, I'll even give you a mental BJ with my mind from the lounge itself. Saucy. I'll pop the links in the show notes.
Speaker C:
Thank you later.
Connor:
And that's it darling hearts. Thanks for stopping by the Labia Lounge. Your bum groove in the couch will be right where you left it, just waiting for you to sink back in for some more double L action next time. If you'd be a dear and subscribe, share this episode or leave a review on iTunes. Then you can pat yourself on the snatch because that's a downright act of sex positive feminist activism and you'd be supporting my vision to educate, empower, demystify and destigmatise with this here podcast. I'm also always open to feedback, topic ideas that you'd love to hear, covered questions or guest suggestions. So feel free to get in touch via my website or over on Insta. You can also send me in TMI stories to be shared anonymously on the pod.
Connor:
My handle is freyagrafthelabia Lounge. If my account hasn't been deleted for being too sex positive, which is always a possibility with censorship. But just in case the chronic censorship finally does obliterate my social channels, I'd highly recommend going and joining my mailing list and snagging yourself some fun freebies for the trouble@www.freyagraph.com freebies. Anyway, later labial legends. See you next time.